What divisions can you claim a legit, lineal champion in?

Discussion in 'British Boxing Forum' started by chrisfinch, Aug 3, 2011.


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  1. chrisfinch

    chrisfinch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    OK, so we all know 'world' title belts have been devalued to the point of meaning pretty much nothing. In an ideal world of one champion per division, where can we apply the lineal rule?

    Off the top of my head you've got the obvious two of:

    Sergio Martinez at Middleweight
    Martinez beat Pavlik, who beat Taylor, who beat Hopkins who was THE Middleweight champion.

    Bernard Hopkins at Light-Heavyweight
    Hopkins beat Pascal, who beat Dawson, who beat Tarver, who beat Jones, who was the champion.

    Now the problem with the lower weights is that it's ruddy awkward with all the movements between divisions, especially Pacquiao and Mayweather, who have moved up and won in pretty much every division down there. Then up at Heavyweight you have the problem of Lewis beating everyone who beat him second time round, so the chain sort of stops with him, and a new one wouldn't begin with both Kiltschkos having a fair claim.

    Also, would it be fair to claim that the winner of the Super 6 lays claim to starting a new chain at Super Middleweight?

    So, people of the Brit forum, enlighten me with some blatant obvious lineal champions I've missed.:oops:
     
    chrisfinch, Aug 3, 2011
    chrisfinch, Aug 3, 2011
    #1
  2. jpab19

    jpab19 Exploding Muffin Dad Full Member

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    Jones wasn't lineal champion at 175.
     
    jpab19, Aug 3, 2011
    jpab19, Aug 3, 2011
    #2
  3. Del Boy

    Del Boy R.I.P Darren Sutherland Full Member

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    Donaire 118
     
    Del Boy, Aug 3, 2011
    Del Boy, Aug 3, 2011
    #3
  4. Jonsey

    Jonsey Boxing Junkie banned

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    Klitscko at HW
    Hopkins at LHW
    Martinez at MW
    Pacquiao at WW
    Wongjongham at FlW
     
    Jonsey, Aug 3, 2011
    Jonsey, Aug 3, 2011
    #4
  5. sud2002

    sud2002 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    No for the heavyweight, you just can not rule out Vitali!

    Hopkins, Martinez and Juan Manuel Marquez are the ones that come to my mind.
     
    sud2002, Aug 3, 2011
    sud2002, Aug 3, 2011
    #5
  6. roe

    roe Guest

    No one in any of the divisions.

    Unfortunately it's not possible the way boxing is run. Nobody fights against the genuine top contenders regularly enough to prove they're truly the champion. There are too many weight divisions as well.
     
    roe, Aug 3, 2011
    roe, Aug 3, 2011
    #6
  7. BigP1983

    BigP1983 Active Member Full Member

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    What does he have to put him ahead of his brother? A defeat Lennox?
     
    BigP1983, Aug 3, 2011
    BigP1983, Aug 3, 2011
    #7
  8. Moe Greene

    Moe Greene Guest

    All 'true lineage' was stamped out the day Gene Tunney vacated the Heavyweight title.

    The first lineage ended then. Everything else since is assumed (as at some point or another, the no.1 has retired/given up their status and a bunch of guys have had to scramble for it)

    So, you could say: Who are the 'linear' champs based on a lineage that was assumed to be true way back when. But I'm pretty sure there are no genuine lineal champs from the inception of the title in that particular weight class.
     
    Moe Greene, Aug 3, 2011
    Moe Greene, Aug 3, 2011
    #8
  9. Moe Greene

    Moe Greene Guest

    Floyd beat Baldomir who beat Judah who beat Spinks who beat Mayorga who beat Forrest who beat Mosley who beat Oscar.

    That one stretches back pretty far.
     
    Moe Greene, Aug 3, 2011
    Moe Greene, Aug 3, 2011
    #9
  10. The Chosen

    The Chosen Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Tarver already lost to Hopkins before losing to Chad. Calzaghe then beat Hopkins, defended against Jones and retired. So it was vacated until Pascal v Dawson, then Hopkins won it from there.
     
    The Chosen, Aug 3, 2011
    The Chosen, Aug 3, 2011
    #10
  11. Moe Greene

    Moe Greene Guest

    :deal
     
    Moe Greene, Aug 3, 2011
    Moe Greene, Aug 3, 2011
    #11
  12. jpab19

    jpab19 Exploding Muffin Dad Full Member

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    Jones never was lineal champion.

    I never understand the people who claim Jones was. Jones was clearly the best. But the lineage was formed when Hill beat Maske, before Jones was even a LHW. DM beat Hill, Gonzalez beat DM, Erdei beat Gonzalez, and that's that. There's no argument that Jones could be lineal champ because the lineage was unbroken for a decade and a half and you can't have two champs at the same time.
     
    jpab19, Aug 3, 2011
    jpab19, Aug 3, 2011
    #12
  13. Beeston Brawler

    Beeston Brawler Comical Ali-egedly Full Member

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    I'm not sure why people considered Dawson linear champion.

    It was kinda bestowed on him during Hopkins' year and a bit sabbatical, before he (Sad Chad) was beaten by Pascal.

    Marquez is the linear LW champion, though there was an odd spell when Casamayor was the champion fighting bums and Diaz held three alphabelts.

    Diaz vs Casa in 2008 would have been sick.
     
    Beeston Brawler, Aug 3, 2011
    Beeston Brawler, Aug 3, 2011
    #13
  14. The Batkilt

    The Batkilt Guest

    This is an example of why I think some people put too much stock into 'lineal' titles. Jones was clearly the best, but Erdei was 'lineal' champion.
     
    The Batkilt, Aug 3, 2011
    The Batkilt, Aug 3, 2011
    #14
  15. Moe Greene

    Moe Greene Guest

    Oh, yeah Dariusz was, he beat Hill before, easy to forget :good

    It's clear though that Jones surpassed Tiger at some point.

    Which is why one World title is so much better ;-) People knew Greb was the man and that champ Wilson was a pretender, what happened?!?

    Of course you know what happened. How stupid nowadays that we have to resort to 'debates' to figure out who the man was :lol:
     
    Moe Greene, Aug 3, 2011
    Moe Greene, Aug 3, 2011
    #15
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