What do you guys think of weight lifting?

Discussion in 'Boxing Training' started by Classic Boxer, Apr 16, 2013.


  1. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie booted Full Member

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    We get it dude, you’re a construction worker with a small ***** and an inferiority complex. That doesn’t mean that anyone is going to subscribe to your irrational nonsense.
     
  2. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie booted Full Member

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    Read up fellow posters, if anyone ever disproves your argument but you're too proud to admit it just say they have a small **** and an inferiority complex. You win by default apparently.
     
  3. viru§™

    viru§™ Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    If your argument involves the phrase "functional strength" you're spewing uneducated nonsense. There's nothing to disprove.
     
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  4. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie booted Full Member

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    False. I see you dodged the rest of that post so I'm going assume you know you're wrong at this point.
     
  5. viru§™

    viru§™ Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Lol. Okay.

    It must be fun living in your little bubble where you can't be wrong.
     
  6. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie booted Full Member

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    Actually I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again in the future most likely. It's pretty obvious what happened here. I questioned why the squat, bench press, and deadlift determine the strongest man in the world then someone decided to stick their nose in and argue against a minute aspect of my argument which was really just an example to be begin with. Then another poster (you) butted in and did the usual "I'm automatically right" act.
     
  7. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie booted Full Member

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    No, I win by everything I said previously. As I said, you were the one making wild claims and you still haven’t backed them up in the slightest, all you’ve done is use ambiguous words like ‘functional’.
     
  8. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie booted Full Member

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    Name something where you recruit more muscle units and to the extent that you do in the deadlift. You can’t. That’s the end of the story, learn what strength is and be quiet when you don’t know something. It will help you avoid looking as foolish as you do here.
     
  9. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie booted Full Member

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    "Uh uh well you have a small pecker!"
     
  10. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie booted Full Member

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    Leverages like longer arms and short legs make a big difference in the deadlift as well as technique rather than actual strength.

    You're out of your depth here almost as bad as the autistic middle schooler "beatdownz"
     
  11. BoxinScienceUSA

    BoxinScienceUSA Member Full Member

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    functional strength is kind of a made up term trainers use, which can be a little more buzz wordy, and a little taken out of context here. i use the term (rarely but sometimes) to describe functional "training" or functional movements/applications. like going for a run on a trial is more "functional" because of the variation in the surface, versus doing laps on a track or a treadmill. chances are your ankles will be stronger and more flexible training on a trail than the flat track, but I wouldn't call it functional "strength". functional training can also be dropping and picking up boxing gloves/playing cards/etc, or throwing a heavybag over your shoulder and running to the other side of the room, or using an unstable sand/water bag instead of a bar. Fartlek training is a term used mostly by runners, but the essence of Fartlek training is almost more accurate of a description here than "functional".

    and i'm also curious why you guys keep using the deadlift as your example (this is a serious question)? is it some kind of standard that people use (seriously, I don't know)? and if so, who are these people??? I'm not saying you guys are wrong, or that it's not a thing. I'm just saying it's been a while since i've been on a construction site, but i don't care how strong you are NO ONE is spending 8+ hours a day lifting water heaters with their back, bending at their hips. I always tell people the most important and "functional" exercise you can do is a squat, because that's the same way you should pick the groceries, or a kid, up off the ground. its also the same muscles to climb the stairs in your house, and get your ass off the couch.

    I've been training athletes and recreationals for over 25 years, and I've told a lot of them not to fall into the new fads too quickly. the elbow only moves in one direction. it doesn't matter if you're using a rock, or sand bag, or 45lb plate, a bar, or a dumbbell. I don't care if you call it peanut butter and jam, it all does the same thing (note: as it is applied in relation to gravity).

    also, a big distinction in your two arguments are how the auxiliary muscles are being used. I know i'm missing a few elements here but basically you have three groups of muscles in a movement; the prime mover (the muscle shortening to do the work), the antagonist (similar to literature fighting/balancing against the prime mover) (lengthening during the work), and the stabilizers (the muscles supporting the movement by staying stationary or static). the easiest example is a bicep curl. the prime mover is the biceps to lift the load up. the antagonist is the triceps. and the shoulder, staying in place, is the stabilizer. I think this is the biggest distinction to your arguments because a deadlift in the gym is a very precise and clean movement with all the muscles knowing their specific roles (like a 100m sprinter, there is no variation). where the guy throwing cinder blocks into a pile (I refuse to use a deadlifting water tank -even though i get the point you were making- as an example), is going to have a different lift every time with a different variation in muscles used (like a NFL player "sprinting" down the field but randomly dodging the defensive team).

    Maybe that helps. Maybe not. Either way, you may now resume annoying each other.
     
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  12. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie booted Full Member

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    How is a deadlift different than a squat? Below your knees it is a squat, and above your knees you are using the largest muscles in your body to leverage it close to your centre of gravity. That is how you pick up anything, and you also use your arms and upper back locked in place so you can properly leverage with your hips without slack and rounding in the back.
    A deadlift is a pushing and pulling movement using the biggest muscles in your body, plus the smaller muscles for support and stability. It uses the most muscle mass out of any movement, and generally speaking you can move the greatest load with that movement. That is objective proof that you are using the most of your strength and muscle in that movement. That also means that it is the least precise of all movements in a sense and the most generally transferable of all movements. It’s a gross strength movement in a stable environment. By doing ‘functional training’ by making the load less and decreasing the stability you are not maximizing your force production, and the force you are producing is very specific to that movement and it’s ‘functionality’ is restricted as it is not as grossly transferable.
    Everything is only specific to the actual movement, so for the most transfer to some other movement it needs to be as large as possible in a general sense, that ultimately means utilising your CNS and your muscle mass to the greatest extent. Then every other specific exercise you do is less of an effort in terms of relative amount of effort and muscle mass used. So ultimately the stronger you are in the strongest exercise you can do the more ‘functional’ that training is.
    Deadlifting for athletes is nowhere near a new ‘fad’, it’s elementary physical preparation that has been around for decades.
    An NFL player sprinting and changing direction are essentially the same thing, putting force into the ground. The isn’t as much of a difference in muscles used as you think. If you look at the research you will see that to improve agility the biggest thing you can do is not agility training, but getting them to be strong in the main lifts (squat and deadlift). The exercise you can do that has the most general transferability to athletic movements like running, jumping, throwing, picking people/objects up off the ground, changing direction.. that is by definition the most ‘functional’ exercise right?
     
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  13. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie booted Full Member

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    Shhh.. grown ups are talking now.
     
  14. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie booted Full Member

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    Then why are you here?
     
  15. BoxinScienceUSA

    BoxinScienceUSA Member Full Member

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    dealt_with ...
    1. you're right, a deadlift below the knees is similar to a squat (it's my fault assuming a stiff leg deadlift). but the big difference is, in a squat the shoulders are above the hips ... the way you should pick up groceries, a child, climg the stairs, get off the couch ... box or wrestle, etc. which puts "functional" more applicable IMO
    2. my reference to "fads" was for functional, as in using a dynamax ball to do a squat press is more "functional" than dumbbells, is a gimmick. deadlifts definitely should be a staple for healthy hams, glutes and lower back, as well as core engagement.
    3. got it, the NFL uses deadlift as a standard. i don't have much experience with training for football, and I don't watch it a lot. but it makes sense why they would use the deadlift, because when they are are the line, waiting for the play to take action, many of them are in a three point stance with their hips somewhat above their shoulders. they need to explode from that position. it's kind of like a behind the head press, where the average person won't gain much more benefit than doing a regular shoulder press, BUT throwing athletes like pitchers and quarter backs will because they need to load their elbow behind their ear.
    4. yes, i agree that strength and conditioning does aid in training sport specifics. over the years I've referenced this text a few times and I'll keep doing it. if anyone wants to learn more about how to use strength training to aid sport skills read Tudor Bompa's books about Periodization (Methodology of [is more complex], and for Sport [is an easier and more applicable read]). it'll map out how you can "phase" from max deadlifts to precomp agility.
    5. you can challenge me on this because I know what I use is easy and effective, but their could be better easy methods. basically when I analyze a movement i'm looking at 2 things: joint that is moving (because those are the muscles being used), and that joint's relation to gravity (a constant force). I get how people can say the deadlift is a push/pull exercise but the majority is a pull from an extension at the hip joint. the push by the quads at the knee is so small, that would be like using a partial bench press as a strength standard. consider the fuller range of motion as the primary movement (note: in a bent deadlift, even though i'm saying it's minor, the quad "push" at the beginning is very important because it initiates the movement)
    6. thanks for the adult reference. much appreciated, lol.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018


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