What do you think of John McGlothlin view on Joe Louis?

mark ant is back?

 

Lem Franklin was a top contender for only 2 months before he got knocked out by Bob Pastor, who was already beaten by Joe Louis twice and by Billy Conn to boot. Yet this guy acts like he was Sam Langford or something, and constantly brings him up as the Number 2 contender of 1941. Turkey Thompson was losing to Bob Pastor and drawing with the unranked Tony Musto and Abe Simon in 1941. Roscoe Toles was even worse than that, barely even a contender and proven inferior to the likes of Simon and Godoy.

He also claimed that Louis bought his way to the title, which is technically correct, Braddock would get a percentage of Louis's purse for his future fights, but that's only due to racial issues. Schmeling hadn't done anything other than beating Louis in 1935 to deserve a title shot in 1937, he most certainly wasn't robbed of it. Louis proceeded to defeat Jack Sharkey (Who beat Schmeling might I add) and Bob Pastor, Natie Brown and Al Ettore after his loss to Schmeling, all of whom were ranked at one point. And to top it all off, former champions Max Bear and Primo Carnera, and contender King Levinsky just before the loss to Schmeling.

Louis fought more #1 Ring fighters than any other fighter in history, in all weight classes, not just Heavyweight. He had the most title defenses in a single division in history. Out of the 15 Heavyweight Champions before him, he beat 5 of them and beat 1 after him for good measure. Muhammad Ali and Joe Louis are so far ahead of the other Heavyweights that it's actually comical.

 

Good post.

After the war Louis defended much more rarely, only once or twice a year, but he always honoured his nr. 1. In actual fact, after the war he only defended against the nr. 1 contender. That neither of these guys rose to this status isn't his fault.

And by the time he came back from the war his status among the top 2 HWs was already solidified anyway, with 21 goddamn defences of the undisputed world title. That there were some good black fighters that he didn't face because he was away at war duty and because they never reached nr. 1 doesn't take away anything from his astonishing resume.

 

Joe Louis resume and legacy is overrated but I still wouldn't put any other HW over him besides Ali who is ahead by a very good margin

 

Actually, he didn't only face his #1 contenders only until after the war. Tony Galento was # 1 in 1939 and Billy Conn was # 1 in 1941, Louis beat them both when they were number 1. There were also some fighters that Louis beat that were # 1 ranked at one point or another, but Louis didn't beat them during that particular time period, like Lou Nova who was # 1 ranked in 1938, Jimmy Bivins who was # 1 ranked in 1942 and 1943, and of course former Champions like Sharkey, Baer and Schmeling, who are obvious cases.

 

No, of course not. What I wrote (I hope) is that after the war he only defended against his nr. 1. Before the war he defended against his nr. 1 and many others.

But in '46 he made two defences against his nr. 1 contender. Imagine such a thing nowadays.

 

Gotcha, I misunderstood.

 

Yes, and Schmeling was nr. 1 in 1938, so in every whole year as a reigning champion when he wasn't in the army he faced his nr. 1. Plus almost 20 others, several who were nr. 1 at other times as you say. It's just hipster revisionism to say that he ducked certain fighters. Like saying that SRR ducked Burley.

 

I've never heard of him.

 

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His views on Louis make no sense.
He makes Louis the underdog against Ali/Foreman/Frazier/Liston with the excuse that "Styles make fights" even though all these guys have way different styles.
He says that Louis outright ducked black fighters when that's just not true. He never had a #1 black contender that he didn't face and the one guy you can make a case for Louis ducking was beaten by one of Louis's victims and was only ranked #2 for two months.
He says Louis sucked against movers and his management tried to keep him away from them even though he was matched against Ramage twice, Pastor twice, Walcott twice and Conn twice (top contenders all). That's a hell of a lot of movers for someone to try to make the case that Louis was ducking that type of fighter.
His distaste for Louis exudes through his every post about the man. A pity he is the most prolific and well known boxing writer on Quora, because he talks a load of ****.

 

The idea of Louis ducking black fighters is something that is brought up from time to time, but when you pull at the threads of the argument, it starts to unravel very quickly.

 

Who cares if the number 1 RANKED guys that Louis beat where Black or white?? I hate to say this without sounded like some bigot, But outside of Joe Louis himself, MOST of the top heavyweight ranked boxers where white. And it was not like the top black fighters were parting themselves from the top white fighters when the likes of Pastor or Simon where beating em. 2 About Louis getting to "buy" his way to the heavyweight title? Louis was black, there was NO WAY IN HELL he was getting a title shot after the rein of Jack Johnson unless he grease the hands a little bit. That ten percent offer for the next ten years was too much to turn down for Braddock. Louis to me has an argument of being the greatest heavyweight champ of ALL time, and in the heavyweight division and really only one other guy can out right challenge Louis for that honor. No it's not Marciano or Dempsey or Tyson or Lewis or Wlad ete. They are all greats in their own right, but it comes down to 1A and 1B with Ali.

 

This is utter silliness.