What do you think of these statements?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by sweet_scientist, Feb 25, 2011.


  1. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I mean, AGREE.
     
  2. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

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    :thumbsup..come up with more stuff like this SS...I haven't gone to such lengths to answer any other thread topic that I can think of!
     
  3. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Will do mate. I'll think up of some other statements that are contentious and post them up here once people have had a bit more of a chance to reply to these ones :good
     
  4. D.T

    D.T Guest

    1) Barry McGuigan was a better fighter than Ricky Hatton all things considered = Agree

    2) Buddy McGirt vs. Harold Brazier would have been the best technical fight seen at 140 in the last 30 years = Disagree

    3) Ernesto Marcel would have walked into the 80's, 90's or 2000's featherweight scene and locked it down like Joseph Fritzl did his daughter = Disagree

    4) Johnny Famechon would have been in the top handful of fighters p4p today = Disagree

    5) Kid Gavilan was more naturally talented than Sugar Ray Leonard = Agree

    6) Henry Armstrong would not have been considered a top 20 fighter all time had he had to come through the Williams/Jack/Mongomery/Angott/Joyce/Dawson era of lightweights in his prime = Unsure

    7) Harry Greb beat a lot of great fighters, but there is no guarantee he beats the really elite fighters around his weight (e.g. Hagler, Monzon, Langford) and so his standing as a top 5 p4p fighter is a little suspect = ****ING TRUE. AGREE 160909320932%

    8 ) Jose Legra would have beaten Barrera, Morales and Marquez = Disagree

    9) Floyd Mayweather is amongst the best 20 fighters of all time in a h2h sense = Top 30

    10) Willie Pep would have been Vicente Saldivar's ***** = Disagree

    11) Miguel Canto could not deal with the mixture of speed, aggression and intuition that Jung Koo Chang brings to the table = Disagree

    12) Julio Cesar Chavez would have beaten Carlos Ortiz and Alexis Arguello = Unsure

    13) Charley Burley at his best beats the likes of Kid Gavilan, Luis Rodriguez and Jose Napoles at their best = Not Gavilan and Napoles

    14) Tommy Hearns was more of a handful for welterweights than he was for junior middleweights, despite improving his strength and physicality at 154 = Maybe

    15) Bernard Hopkins would lose to Gene Fullmer peak vs. peak = Disagree heavily

    16) Simon Brown would have beat Manny Pacquiao at welterweight = Disagree

    17) Micky Ward had the best left rip to the body of all time and I'm afraid to admit it because he was so mediocre as a fighter = Disagree (Roy Jones was better in that department)

    18 ) Jake Lamotta was good enough to beat Marvin Hagler and Carlos Monzon = Not a ****ing chance

    19) Rocky Marciano takes anyone sub 200 pounds in the history of the sport = Disagree

    20) Freddie Dawson would have been every bit as great as a Duilio Loi or Nicolino Locche if he had the luxury of milking home town fights = Agree

    21) Jim Driscoll caught Abe Attell unawares and would have been exposed as nothing more than a Ricky Hatton level fighter had he stayed and spent his prime in the States = Unsure

    22) Dwight Qawi would have pushed Larry's **** in had he moved up in 85. = With my heart = yes. With my head = no.

    23) Mike Tyson was exposed for having natural limitations rather than being brought down through environmental factors = Disagree disgustingly

    24) Eder Jofre would have beaten Ruben Olivares because even though Ruben was smoother and probably the harder hitter, Jofre simply had more ticker = Unsure. SD either way.

    25) Nino Benvenuti would have been knocked out cold by Julian Jackson = Agree!!

    26) Billy Graham would have beat Terry Norris = Maybe

    27) Joey Archer would have a decent chance of winning a decision against the Roy Jones that Bernard Hopkins fought = Which fight?

    28 ) Jeff Fenech would have taken both Harada and Jofre at 118, despite being ranked quite a bit below both = Unsure. Probably Harada but not Jofre.

    29) Harold Johnson beats both Victor Galindez and John Conteh = Agree

    30) Michael Spinks beats Ezzard Charles more often than not at either light heavy or heavy = Agree
     
  5. Vic-JofreBRASIL

    Vic-JofreBRASIL Obsessed with Boxing

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    Well, The rest I disagree SS......
    Some points :

    8 ) Jose Legra would have beaten Barrera, Morales and Marquez -
    I love Legra.......But I´m not sure about that.....

    10) Willie Pep would have been Vicente Saldivar's ***** -
    Hell NO ! Saldivar would be a real tough opponent for any feather ever.....

    24) Eder Jofre would have beaten Ruben Olivares because even though Ruben was smoother and probably the harder hitter, Jofre simply had more ticker -
    Probably, but I disagree about Olivares was smoother than Eder....

    27) Joey Archer would have a decent chance of winning a decision against the Roy Jones that Bernard Hopkins fought -
    Yeah, a decent chance, not more than that....The speed was too much for Archer.....

    28 ) Jeff Fenech would have taken both Harada and Jofre at 118, despite being ranked quite a bit below both -
    No way.....Why ??

    :good
     
  6. lora

    lora Fighting Zapata Full Member

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    1) Barry McGuigan was a better fighter than Ricky Hatton all things considered....Absolutely

    2) Buddy McGirt vs. Harold Brazier would have been the best technical fight seen at 140 in the last 30 years.....i can see that

    3) Ernesto Marcel would have walked into the 80's, 90's or 2000's featherweight scene and locked it down like Joseph Fritzl did his daughter....don't have a strong opinion on 80s, yes for the other two

    4) Johnny Famechon would have been in the top handful of fighters p4p today....yes

    5) Kid Gavilan was more naturally talented than Sugar Ray Leonard...unsure

    6) Henry Armstrong would not have been considered a top 20 fighter all time had he had to come through the Williams/Jack/Mongomery/Angott/Joyce/Dawson era of lightweights in his prime...don't have a strong opinion

    7) Harry Greb beat a lot of great fighters, but there is no guarantee he beats the really elite fighters around his weight (e.g. Hagler, Monzon, Langford) and so his standing as a top 5 p4p fighter is a little suspect...disagree

    8 ) Jose Legra would have beaten Barrera, Morales and Marquez....more often than not, agree

    9) Floyd Mayweather is amongst the best 20 fighters of all time in a h2h sense...No

    10) Willie Pep would have been Vicente Saldivar's *****:lol:..probably not, though i do think saldivar would have the edge of the post plane crash Pep

    11) Miguel Canto could not deal with the mixture of speed, aggression and intuition that Jung Koo Chang brings to the table...he would lose imo, but it wouldn't be easy.

    12) Julio Cesar Chavez would have beaten Carlos Ortiz and Alexis Arguello ...don't have a strong opinion

    13) Charley Burley at his best beats the likes of Kid Gavilan, Luis Rodriguez and Jose Napoles at their best....don't have a strong opinion

    14) Tommy Hearns was more of a handful for welterweights than he was for junior middleweights, despite improving his strength and physicality at 154....agree

    15) Bernard Hopkins would lose to Gene Fullmer peak vs. peak...don'thave a strong opinion

    16) Simon Brown would have beat Manny Pacquiao at welterweight...yes

    17) Micky Ward had the best left rip to the body of all time and I'm afraid to admit it because he was so mediocre as a fighter...:lol: well it was damn good

    18 ) Jake Lamotta was good enough to beat Marvin Hagler and Carlos Monzon...unsure

    19) Rocky Marciano takes anyone sub 200 pounds in the history of the sport....arguable, but i leave this kind of debate to suzieQ

    20) Freddie Dawson would have been every bit as great as a Duilio Loi or Nicolino Locche if he had the luxury of milking home town fights.....dont have a strong opinion

    21) Jim Driscoll caught Abe Attell unawares and would have been exposed as nothing more than a Ricky Hatton level fighter had he stayed and spent his prime in the States....:lol:

    22) Dwight Qawi would have pushed Larry's **** in had he moved up in 85...:lol:

    23) Mike Tyson was exposed for having natural limitations rather than being brought down through environmental factors...agree

    24) Eder Jofre would have beaten Ruben Olivares because even though Ruben was smoother and probably the harder hitter, Jofre simply had more ticker...Jofre was better at most things imo

    25) Nino Benvenuti would have been knocked out cold by Julian Jackson...dont have a strong opinion

    26) Billy Graham would have beat Terry Norris....agree

    27) Joey Archer would have a decent chance of winning a decision against the Roy Jones that Bernard Hopkins fought...unsure

    28 ) Jeff Fenech would have taken both Harada and Jofre at 118, despite being ranked quite a bit below both....disagree, i'd say Jofre would KO him.Could well beat Harada if he doesn't come in at his best though

    29) Harold Johnson beats both Victor Galindez and John Conteh...don't have a strong opinion

    30) Michael Spinks beats Ezzard Charles more often than not at either light heavy or heavy.....disagree
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    1) Barry McGuigan was a better fighter than Ricky Hatton all things considered
    Agree


    2) Buddy McGirt vs. Harold Brazier would have been the best technical fight seen at 140 in the last 30 years
    Dunno

    3) Ernesto Marcel would have walked into the 80's, 90's or 2000's featherweight scene and locked it down like Joseph Fritzl did his daughter
    Disagree

    4) Johnny Famechon would have been in the top handful of fighters p4p today
    agree

    5) Kid Gavilan was more naturally talented than Sugar Ray Leonard
    disagree

    6) Henry Armstrong would not have been considered a top 20 fighter all time had he had to come through the Williams/Jack/Mongomery/Angott/Joyce/Dawson era of lightweights in his prime
    disagree

    7) Harry Greb beat a lot of great fighters, but there is no guarantee he beats the really elite fighters around his weight (e.g. Hagler, Monzon, Langford) and so his standing as a top 5 p4p fighter is a little suspect
    disagree. there are no "guaranees" anywhere.

    8 ) Jose Legra would have beaten Barrera, Morales and Marquez
    disagree

    9) Floyd Mayweather is amongst the best 20 fighters of all time in a h2h sense
    disagree

    10) Willie Pep would have been Vicente Saldivar's *****
    disagree

    11) Miguel Canto could not deal with the mixture of speed, aggression and intuition that Jung Koo Chang brings to the table
    agree

    12) Julio Cesar Chavez would have beaten Carlos Ortiz and Alexis Arguello

    disagree

    13) Charley Burley at his best beats the likes of Kid Gavilan, Luis Rodriguez and Jose Napoles at their best
    agree

    14) Tommy Hearns was more of a handful for welterweights than he was for junior middleweights, despite improving his strength and physicality at 154
    disagree

    15) Bernard Hopkins would lose to Gene Fullmer peak vs. peak
    disagree, arguable though

    16) Simon Brown would have beat Manny Pacquiao at welterweight
    disagree

    17) Micky Ward had the best left rip to the body of all time and I'm afraid to admit it because he was so mediocre as a fighter
    disagree

    18 ) Jake Lamotta was good enough to beat Marvin Hagler and Carlos Monzon
    agree, wouldn't expect it though, wouldn't be my pick.

    19) Rocky Marciano takes anyone sub 200 pounds in the history of the sport
    disagree

    20) Freddie Dawson would have been every bit as great as a Duilio Loi or Nicolino Locche if he had the luxury of milking home town fights
    don't know

    21) Jim Driscoll caught Abe Attell unawares and would have been exposed as nothing more than a Ricky Hatton level fighter had he stayed and spent his prime in the States
    disagree

    22) Dwight Qawi would have pushed Larry's **** in had he moved up in 85.
    disagree

    23) Mike Tyson was exposed for having natural limitations rather than being brought down through environmental factors
    agree

    24) Eder Jofre would have beaten Ruben Olivares because even though Ruben was smoother and probably the harder hitter, Jofre simply had more ticker
    disagree

    25) Nino Benvenuti would have been knocked out cold by Julian Jackson
    agree

    26) Billy Graham would have beat Terry Norris
    agree

    27) Joey Archer would have a decent chance of winning a decision against the Roy Jones that Bernard Hopkins fought
    agree, "decent chance"

    28 ) Jeff Fenech would have taken both Harada and Jofre at 118, despite being ranked quite a bit below both
    could go either way

    29) Harold Johnson beats both Victor Galindez and John Conteh
    agree

    30) Michael Spinks beats Ezzard Charles more often than not at either light heavy or heavy
    disagree
     
  8. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Good stuff guys, keep em coming:thumbsup
     
  9. dpw417

    dpw417 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  10. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1) Barry McGuigan was a better fighter than Ricky Hatton all things considered: Agreed

    2) Buddy McGirt vs. Harold Brazier would have been the best technical fight seen at 140 in the last 30 years: That may very well be true.

    3) Ernesto Marcel would have walked into the 80's, 90's or 2000's featherweight scene and locked it down like Joseph Fritzl did his daughter:
    He'd certainly be amongst the very best in any of those eras, but I don't think he'd have necessarily locked it down in the 80's for instance.

    4) Johnny Famechon would have been in the top handful of fighters p4p today: Certainly.

    5) Kid Gavilan was more naturally talented than Sugar Ray Leonard: Interesting. I'm not entirely sure either way. Both were supremely talented. Gun to my head I'll take Leonard, but wouldn't argue vehemently either way.

    6) Henry Armstrong would not have been considered a top 20 fighter all time had he had to come through the Williams/Jack/Mongomery/Angott/Joyce/Dawson era of lightweights in his prime: Disagree. Strongly.

    7) Harry Greb beat a lot of great fighters, but there is no guarantee he beats the really elite fighters around his weight (e.g. Hagler, Monzon, Langford) and so his standing as a top 5 p4p fighter is a little suspect: There's no guarantee of anything in these types of matchups, but that doesn't deter from his status, in my opinion.

    8 ) Jose Legra would have beaten Barrera, Morales and Marquez: Very possible.

    9) Floyd Mayweather is amongst the best 20 fighters of all time in a h2h sense: Nope.

    10) Willie Pep would have been Vicente Saldivar's *****: Not sure if I'd agree with that wording, but I've always said Saldivar would be hell for Pep and any boxer of his type.

    11) Miguel Canto could not deal with the mixture of speed, aggression and intuition that Jung Koo Chang brings to the table: Agreed. Not many could.

    12) Julio Cesar Chavez would have beaten Carlos Ortiz and Alexis Arguello: Can't say for certain, but I don't think I'd agree, for different reasons both.

    13) Charley Burley at his best beats the likes of Kid Gavilan, Luis Rodriguez and Jose Napoles at their best: I don't know. How can you? Those are the elite supremo types, very difficult to distinguish between any of them.

    14) Tommy Hearns was more of a handful for welterweights than he was for junior middleweights, despite improving his strength and physicality at 154: Agreed 100%. Always have, regardless of what seems to be the conventional wisdom.

    15) Bernard Hopkins would lose to Gene Fullmer peak vs. peak: A lot more interesting than many would initially consider, I think. I can't say if I agree with it, though.

    16) Simon Brown would have beat Manny Pacquiao at welterweight: I've stated as much before, but it really is a difficult one to call.

    17) Micky Ward had the best left rip to the body of all time and I'm afraid to admit it because he was so mediocre as a fighter: I've always said that's all he had, but it was one hell of a weapon. There aren't many that come to mind that had that much a damaging force with any punch, really, specifically one so underlying. I don't disagree with this statement, actually.

    18 ) Jake Lamotta was good enough to beat Marvin Hagler and Carlos Monzon: Possibly, but I wouldn't favor him in either, specifically against Monzon.

    19) Rocky Marciano takes anyone sub 200 pounds in the history of the sport: Probably.

    20) Freddie Dawson would have been every bit as great as a Duilio Loi or Nicolino Locche if he had the luxury of milking home town fights: I'm unsure, as I don't know enough about Dawson to make that assertion.

    21) Jim Driscoll caught Abe Attell unawares and would have been exposed as nothing more than a Ricky Hatton level fighter had he stayed and spent his prime in the States: Strongly disagree.

    22) Dwight Qawi would have pushed Larry's **** in had he moved up in 85: Disagree.

    23) Mike Tyson was exposed for having natural limitations rather than being brought down through environmental factors: Disagree, although that isn't to say he could've been in the right era.

    24) Eder Jofre would have beaten Ruben Olivares because even though Ruben was smoother and probably the harder hitter, Jofre simply had more ticker: Agreed.

    25) Nino Benvenuti would have been knocked out cold by Julian Jackson: Agreed.

    26) Billy Graham would have beat Terry Norris: Difficult call. Norris was at his best against undersized fighters, specifically ones without the power to expose his main flaw. That said, Graham was certainly the better technician and the more intelligent fighter. Still, I'd probably favor Norris.

    27) Joey Archer would have a decent chance of winning a decision against the Roy Jones that Bernard Hopkins fought: I wouldn't say so. Bad matchup for Joey.

    28 ) Jeff Fenech would have taken both Harada and Jofre at 118, despite being ranked quite a bit below both: Tough calls. Not out of the realms of possibility, though, specifically against the smaller Harada.

    29) Harold Johnson beats both Victor Galindez and John Conteh: Disagree. Conteh was just better than Johnson, in my opinion, although I'm sure that statement will get some flack. Galindez may very well have trumped his style as well.

    30) Michael Spinks beats Ezzard Charles more often than not at either light heavy or heavy: I honestly don't know how to call that one.
     
  11. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    1) Barry McGuigan was a better fighter than Ricky Hatton all things considered Agreed

    2) Buddy McGirt vs. Harold Brazier would have been the best technical fight seen at 140 in the last 30 years No opinion

    3) Ernesto Marcel would have walked into the 80's, 90's or 2000's featherweight scene and locked it down like Joseph Fritzl did his daughter He'd definitely be one of the top performers in any era, probably have a higher regarding also, so I wouldn't say he'd lock them down but he'd be a major player.

    4) Johnny Famechon would have been in the top handful of fighters p4p today Most definitely, but he could be very under appreciated

    5) Kid Gavilan was more naturally talented than Sugar Ray Leonard Physically no, but he had that great innovation.

    6) Henry Armstrong would not have been considered a top 20 fighter all time had he had to come through the Williams/Jack/Mongomery/Angott/Joyce/Dawson era of lightweights in his prime Disagree, I think it could improve his ranking as I'd pick him to beat most of them at least once, and Armstrong didn't stay too long at lightweight so it would only add some great names to his resume IMO

    7) Harry Greb beat a lot of great fighters, but there is no guarantee he beats the really elite fighters around his weight (e.g. Hagler, Monzon, Langford) and so his standing as a top 5 p4p fighter is a little suspect Disagree.

    8 ) Jose Legra would have beaten Barrera, Morales and Marquez Not seen enough of Legra but it wouldn't surprise me

    9) Floyd Mayweather is amongst the best 20 fighters of all time in a h2h sense Nope, but he is a very very good fighter

    10) Willie Pep would have been Vicente Saldivar's ***** Nah, they would be extremly equal really IMO.

    11) Miguel Canto could not deal with the mixture of speed, aggression and intuition that Jung Koo Chang brings to the table True, but it wouldnt be one-sided

    12) Julio Cesar Chavez would have beaten Carlos Ortiz and Alexis Arguello Maybe, but either man could have beaten him or vice versa.

    13) Charley Burley at his best beats the likes of Kid Gavilan, Luis Rodriguez and Jose Napoles at their best Hard to call for sure, but I'd say he'd be capable of, but in a series he would split fights with all of them IMO

    14) Tommy Hearns was more of a handful for welterweights than he was for junior middleweights, despite improving his strength and physicality at 154 Disagree, but hes a machine at both weights

    15) Bernard Hopkins would lose to Gene Fullmer peak vs. peak Close, close match up could go either way

    16) Simon Brown would have beat Manny Pacquiao at welterweight Not seen too much of Brown to comment

    17) Micky Ward had the best left rip to the body of all time and I'm afraid to admit it because he was so mediocre as a fighter It is superb, not much many better to be fair to him.

    18 ) Jake Lamotta was good enough to beat Marvin Hagler and Carlos Monzon Disagree, although he'd give 'em hell

    19) Rocky Marciano takes anyone sub 200 pounds in the history of the sport Disagree

    20) Freddie Dawson would have been every bit as great as a Duilio Loi or Nicolino Locche if he had the luxury of milking home town fights Probably yes, he seems to have been a very capable operator.

    21) Jim Driscoll caught Abe Attell unawares and would have been exposed as nothing more than a Ricky Hatton level fighter had he stayed and spent his prime in the States Couldnt disagree more

    22) Dwight Qawi would have pushed Larry's **** in had he moved up in 85. Nope

    23) Mike Tyson was exposed for having natural limitations rather than being brought down through environmental factors Dont know

    24) Eder Jofre would have beaten Ruben Olivares because even though Ruben was smoother and probably the harder hitter, Jofre simply had more ticker Not sure it is just that reason if you do pick Jofre. I can see the fight both ways, I just favour Jofre as he was more durable, but a prime Olivares cannot be discounted against any Bantam.

    25) Nino Benvenuti would have been knocked out cold by Julian Jackson Could have been yeh, but not that much o a chance of happening IMO

    26) Billy Graham would have beat Terry Norris Agreed

    27) Joey Archer would have a decent chance of winning a decision against the Roy Jones that Bernard Hopkins fought No

    28 ) Jeff Fenech would have taken both Harada and Jofre at 118, despite being ranked quite a bit below both Nah

    29) Harold Johnson beats both Victor Galindez and John Conteh 50-50 match ups

    30) Michael Spinks beats Ezzard Charles more often than not at either light heavy or heavy Nope
     
  12. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Nov 8, 2004
    Great stuff guys, interesting thoughts....


    For those who want some more, here are 35 more random statements. See where you fall on them:


    1) Barney Ross and Benny Leonard both go title-less if their primes were in the 1940s

    2) The following fighters would comfortably beat Juan Manuel Marquez at lightweight: Stevie Johnston, Ray Lampkin, Edwin Viruet and Mando Ramos

    3) Had it not been for Julio Cesar Chavez, Meldrick Taylor would have whipped Buddy’s ass at welterweight as well

    4) Miguel Lora’s defensive ability was a step below the true defensive masters

    5) Fighters like Rafael Herrera, Chucho Castillo and Jose Medel are more deserving of a HOF spot than Orlando Canizales

    6) Fighters like Yuri Arbachakov, Santos Laciar and Myung Woo Yuh are more deserving of a HOF spot than Masao Ohba.

    7) Marlon Starling would have beaten Johnny Bratton at 147.

    8 ) Gil Turner has a better wins resume than Terry Norris and was actually a better fighter as well

    9) Joe Calzaghe would have taken a decision against Toney even at Toney's 168 best, because Toney was always a lazy **** liable to be outworked

    10) Reggie Johnson would have beaten Michael Nunn at 160

    11) The following featherweights are on the same level as Barrera, Morales and Marquez in terms of ability: Sugar Ramos, Rocky Lockridge and Barry McGuigan

    12) Had he been around six or seven years earlier, Larry Holmes would have crushed any hope of Ali being regarded as the top heavyweight of all time

    13) Eduardo Lausse would have knocked prime Roy Jones out cold.

    14) Mark Johnson beats Johnny Tapia, Jiro Watanabe, Sung Kil Moon, Santos Laciar and Nana Konadu at 115

    15) Packey McFarland was actually better than Benny Leonard or Joe Gans, but didn’t get the chance to prove it

    16) Bob Fitzsimmons’ resume is no match for Jermain Taylor’s

    17) Pernell Whitaker goes title-less in the 1940’s and 1970’s

    18 ) Emile Griffith doesn’t make welterweight top 10 lists if it wasn’t for his connections

    19) Sumbu Kalambay outboxes James Toney, Joey Giardello and Dick Tiger

    20) We are currently living through the worst era in boxing in the last 100 years

    21) Ken Buchanan would beat Hector Camacho at lightweight

    22) Edwin Rosario would crush Willie Pep

    23) Brian Mitchell beats Joel Casamayor, Diego Corrales and Genaro Hernandez

    24) Sandy Saddler drops a decision to Johnny Famechon because Johnny is too wily on the outside and too educated on the inside with his infighting ability

    25) Charley Scott, Ralph Dupas, Del Flanagan and Jose Stable all show Miguel Cotto how it’s done

    26) Johnny Saxton would beat Donald Curry (corrupt decision aside)

    27) Freddie Pendleton vs. Edwin Rosario could have gone either way

    28 ) The Frankie Randall that fought Chavez in 1994 would have held his own with a 1996 DLH

    28 ) A prime Ayub Kalule beats Herol Graham

    29) Jorge Fernandez would beat Terry Norris, Winky Wright and Julian Jackson

    30) Luis Federico Thompson plays with Tito Trinidad

    31) If Kenny Lane was boxing in the late 2000’s, early 2010’s everyone would think he was top 100 all time.

    32) Mike McCallum gets outboxed by Joey Archer

    33) Just admit it, Paulie Ayala was a better bantamweight than Johnny Tapia

    34) Walter McGowan would have outboxed Hilario Zapata

    35) Yoko Gushiken has the worst skill to resume ratio of all time
     
  13. lora

    lora Fighting Zapata Full Member

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    1) Barney Ross and Benny Leonard both go title-less if their primes were in the 1940s....Disagree, though the potential to do worse is certainly there

    2) The following fighters would comfortably beat Juan Manuel Marquez at lightweight: Stevie Johnston, Ray Lampkin, Edwin Viruet and Mando Ramos....more often than not, yes

    3) Had it not been for Julio Cesar Chavez, Meldrick Taylor would have whipped Buddy’s ass at welterweight as well .....disagree, a better Welter Taylor than the one we saw would be favourite, but he was the lesser suited to moving up.Likely to be closer

    4) Miguel Lora’s defensive ability was a step below the true defensive masters...disagree as far as actual defensive ability goes, but he could be said to be less responsible\cautious and less of a pure boxer than some for sure.

    5) Fighters like Rafael Herrera, Chucho Castillo and Jose Medel are more deserving of a HOF spot than Orlando Canizales...agree, i think Canizales was an underachiever for the talent he had

    6) Fighters like Yuri Arbachakov, Santos Laciar and Myung Woo Yuh are more deserving of a HOF spot than Masao Ohba....disagree on arbachakov and Yuh, though i think Laciar fought better fighters overall and could be argued to be better

    7) Marlon Starling would have beaten Johnny Bratton at 147.At his best, yes, but not one to bet money on

    8 ) Gil Turner has a better wins resume than Terry Norris and was actually a better fighter as well...don't have a strong opinion right now, Turner is a fighter i need to refresh my opinion on, but i'd lean towards yes

    9) Joe Calzaghe would have taken a decision against Toney even at Toney's 168 best, because Toney was always a lazy **** liable to be outworked ....unsure

    10) Reggie Johnson would have beaten Michael Nunn at 160...i'd be rooting for him, but don't think he matched up that wel, would be competitive certainlyl.More likely to beat Toney, Benn, Eubank or Jackson as far as more high profile fighters from that era goes

    11) The following featherweights are on the same level as Barrera, Morales and Marquez in terms of ability: Sugar Ramos, Rocky Lockridge and Barry McGuigan..Ramos and Lockridge yes, Mcguigan a notch below because of lesser athleticism\physical ability

    12) Had he been around six or seven years earlier, Larry Holmes would have crushed any hope of Ali being regarded as the top heavyweight of all time...possible but much would depend on the qualityand timing of the matchmaking for him

    13) Eduardo Lausse would have knocked prime Roy Jones out cold.....disagree, too methodical, composed and one-paced in style

    14) Mark Johnson beats Johnny Tapia, Jiro Watanabe, Sung Kil Moon, Santos Laciar and Nana Konadu at 115...disagree but some tough to call fights there

    15) Packey McFarland was actually better than Benny Leonard or Joe Gans, but didn’t get the chance to prove it...unsure

    16) Bob Fitzsimmons’ resume is no match for Jermain Taylor’s:lol:

    17) Pernell Whitaker goes title-less in the 1940’s and 1970’s...disagree, especially in the 70s where even if DUran turned out to have his number, Cervantes was just not suited to fighting great defensive fighters or pure boxers who aren't outsized

    18 ) Emile Griffith doesn’t make welterweight top 10 lists if it wasn’t for his connections....very possible, though still seen as a great\borderline great

    19) Sumbu Kalambay outboxes James Toney, Joey Giardello and Dick Tiger...very possible though i don't have a strong opinion of a Giardello fight

    20) We are currently living through the worst era in boxing in the last 100 years...yes

    21) Ken Buchanan would beat Hector Camacho at lightweight...yes, especially over 15

    22) Edwin Rosario would crush Willie Pep...No, i don't think Edwin likes boxers, even smaller as he is, Pep should be great enough here, might get hurt or dropped though

    23) Brian Mitchell beats Joel Casamayor, Diego Corrales and Genaro Hernandez...Think he might struggle with Hernandez stylistically, but yes a better fighter than them

    24) Sandy Saddler drops a decision to Johnny Famechon because Johnny is too wily on the outside and too educated on the inside with his infighting ability...50\50

    25) Charley Scott, Ralph Dupas, Del Flanagan and Jose Stable all show Miguel Cotto how it’s done...yes, unless you mean meticulous eyebrow plucking;)

    26) Johnny Saxton would beat Donald Curry (corrupt decision aside)...no, not quite good enough a boxer\cutie

    27) Freddie Pendleton vs. Edwin Rosario could have gone either way...i can't even remember them fighting, unless you mean Randall?

    28 ) The Frankie Randall that fought Chavez in 1994 would have held his own with a 1996 DLH...agree, though i would favour Oscar

    28 ) A prime Ayub Kalule beats Herol Graham...****ing right

    29) Jorge Fernandez would beat Terry Norris, Winky Wright and Julian Jackson....possible but he's another i need to brush up on again

    30) Luis Federico Thompson plays with Tito Trinidad...no, very good fighter but i don't think his laid back standup style would suit Tito.Could maybe edge a decision, mind you

    31) If Kenny Lane was boxing in the late 2000’s, early 2010’s everyone would think he was top 100 all time. :lol: quite possible, very good fighter

    32) Mike McCallum gets outboxed by Joey Archer...agree, though close more often than not

    33) Just admit it, Paulie Ayala was a better bantamweight than Johnny Tapia:lol: maybe head to head he's even but not overall, no

    34) Walter McGowan would have outboxed Hilario Zapata....very possible, but not one i have a strong opinion on.Could be awesome, or totally awful with both cancelling each other out

    35) Yoko Gushiken has the worst skill to resume ratio of all time:lol:...he's up there.Yoko, Calzaghe, Lopez, Too Sharp, Canizales...
     
  14. lora

    lora Fighting Zapata Full Member

    10,305
    553
    Feb 17, 2010
    btw sweet, have you watched bassa's loss to Rojas,?.I know you keep record of your cards, i'd be interesting in seeing it if you have one.
     
  15. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,744
    81
    Apr 4, 2010
    1) Barney Ross and Benny Leonard both go title-less if their primes were in the 1940s- Couldn't tell you on Leonard, given the transitional era which he fought in combined with the relative lack of footage. That said, his era (regardless of the comparisons between the techniques) is largely regarded as one of the best of all time and he did as good as is possible against the crop. I tend to think Ross fares right up there amongst the best of the 40's crowd. He also fought in an absolutely stacked era and came out best among his peers, so I don't think he'd be behind the curve in the 40's.

    2) The following fighters would comfortably beat Juan Manuel Marquez at lightweight- Stevie Johnston, Ray Lampkin, Edwin Viruet and Mando Ramos- I agree on Johnson, Ramos, and Viruet. I'd like to see more of Lampkin, but I wouldn't think Marquez fares as well against Duran, out of sorts or not.

    3) Had it not been for Julio Cesar Chavez, Meldrick Taylor would have whipped Buddy’s ass at welterweight as well- Disagree. I agree with you in that their first fight wasn't as much of a masterclass as many paint it out to be. Also, wasn't Buddy suffering from some form of injury in that one? I forget the details. The stoppage was trash, too.

    4) Miguel Lora’s defensive ability was a step below the true defensive masters- Thoroughly disagree, although he did tend to get hit more than most of them when he went on the offensive. Goes with the territory, though. When he was on his A-game, full defensive counter-punching mode his defensive skills were as good as I've ever seen. Zaragoza and Davila I being prime examples.

    5) Fighters like Rafael Herrera, Chucho Castillo and Jose Medel are more deserving of a HOF spot than Orlando Canizales- I wouldn't say so, although I can see the argument given the depth of their eras and how well they stood out among their peers.

    6) Fighters like Yuri Arbachakov, Santos Laciar and Myung Woo Yuh are more deserving of a HOF spot than Masao Ohba- Laciar is likely as deserving, neither of the other two, although I'd certainly find spots for them.

    7) Marlon Starling would have beaten Johnny Bratton at 147- On top form I'd agree.

    8 ) Gil Turner has a better wins resume than Terry Norris and was actually a better fighter as well- Agreed, although he wasn't as talented.

    9) Joe Calzaghe would have taken a decision against Toney even at Toney's 168 best, because Toney was always a lazy **** liable to be outworked- 50/50

    10) Reggie Johnson would have beaten Michael Nunn at 160- Depends on what form Nunn turns up in. He was a real underachiever. In the form he showed up for against Barkley, Curry, Starling, etc. I'd favor Johnson. Nunn circa the Tate fight I'd favor strongly.

    11) The following featherweights are on the same level as Barrera, Morales and Marquez in terms of ability- Sugar Ramos, Rocky Lockridge and Barry McGuigan- Ramos certainly. I'd hesitate on making that call for McGuigan, though. I think Lockridge would've held his own against the trio.

    12) Had he been around six or seven years earlier, Larry Holmes would have crushed any hope of Ali being regarded as the top heavyweight of all time- Hell no.

    13) Eduardo Lausse would have knocked prime Roy Jones out cold- Disagree, although it's certainly possible.

    14) Mark Johnson beats Johnny Tapia, Jiro Watanabe, Sung Kil Moon, Santos Laciar and Nana Konadu at 115- Disagree. I'm not sure on them, though.

    15) Packey McFarland was actually better than Benny Leonard or Joe Gans, but didn’t get the chance to prove it- That very well may be true. Just as good, certainly, for my money.

    16) Bob Fitzsimmons’ resume is no match for Jermain Taylor’s- Well, I mean, obviously.

    17) Pernell Whitaker goes title-less in the 1940’s and 1970’s- LOL.

    18 ) Emile Griffith doesn’t make welterweight top 10 lists if it wasn’t for his connections- Oooooohhh, no comment.

    19) Sumbu Kalambay outboxes James Toney, Joey Giardello and Dick Tiger- I think so.

    20) We are currently living through the worst era in boxing in the last 100 years- Absolutely.

    21) Ken Buchanan would beat Hector Camacho at lightweight- Agreed.

    22) Edwin Rosario would crush Willie Pep- Disagree, although when you think about it, a young Rosario with his technical responsibility intact doesn't look too good for the smaller Pep.

    23) Brian Mitchell beats Joel Casamayor, Diego Corrales and Genaro Hernandez- That may well be true. I tend to think he was at least as good as any of them.

    24) Sandy Saddler drops a decision to Johnny Famechon because Johnny is too wily on the outside and too educated on the inside with his infighting ability- Late career Saddler I might agree. Prime Saddler I'd favor.

    25) Charley Scott, Ralph Dupas, Del Flanagan and Jose Stable all show Miguel Cotto how it’s done- Dupas and Stable no doubt. Scott I could see pulling it off as well, although I wouldn't strongly favor him. Haven't seen any Flanagan.

    26) Johnny Saxton would beat Donald Curry (corrupt decision aside)- It's very possible he could throw Curry off his textbook approach, but I'd favor an A-game Curry most likely.

    27) Freddie Pendleton vs. Edwin Rosario could have gone either way- Agreed.

    28 ) The Frankie Randall that fought Chavez in 1994 would have held his own with a 1996 DLH- Agreed, although I'd favor Oscar.

    28 ) A prime Ayub Kalule beats Herol Graham- Nah, sorry to say I disagree.

    29) Jorge Fernandez would beat Terry Norris, Winky Wright and Julian Jackson- Haven't seen enough Fernandez to comment.

    30) Luis Federico Thompson plays with Tito Trinidad- Nah. He was an excellent counter-puncher, but seemed too laid back from what I've seen of him. Eventually Tito would start shelling him up for either a clear Decision or stoppage.

    31) If Kenny Lane was boxing in the late 2000’s, early 2010’s everyone would think he was top 100 all time- Haven't seen enough of Lane.

    32) Mike McCallum gets outboxed by Joey Archer- Very possible, in fact I might agree.

    33) Just admit it, Paulie Ayala was a better bantamweight than Johnny Tapia- Not by any notable distance. I think Tapia was the better overall fighter. Better at his peak, although he does get overrated by many I feel.

    34) Walter McGowan would have outboxed Hilario Zapata- Nope, not on his A-game, although that is one hell of an intriguing matchup. I'd favor him over Canto, though.

    35) Yoko Gushiken has the worst skill to resume ratio of all time- He's up there, although there are plenty of other contenders.