What do you think of these statements?

1) Barney Ross and Benny Leonard both go title-less if their primes were in the 1940s - Nope, I think both guys proved they were among the very best in history and hung in some very tough eras.

2) The following fighters would comfortably beat Juan Manuel Marquez at lightweight: Stevie Johnston, Ray Lampkin, Edwin Viruet and Mando Ramos - Ain't seen Johnson or Lampkin, but Viruet and Ramos would probably beat him

3) Had it not been for Julio Cesar Chavez, Meldrick Taylor would have whipped Buddy’s ass at welterweight as well Dunno

4) Miguel Lora’s defensive ability was a step below the true defensive masters He is up there, I just think his more offensive approach at times makes him look less impressive defensivly overrall than a pure boxer.

5) Fighters like Rafael Herrera, Chucho Castillo and Jose Medel are more deserving of a HOF spot than Orlando Canizales They are as equally desereving

6) Fighters like Yuri Arbachakov, Santos Laciar and Myung Woo Yuh are more deserving of a HOF spot than Masao Ohba. Ditto

7) Marlon Starling would have beaten Johnny Bratton at 147. Could well have

8 ) Gil Turner has a better wins resume than Terry Norris and was actually a better fighter as well Yes, not sure on the better fighter bit though

9) Joe Calzaghe would have taken a decision against Toney even at Toney's 168 best, because Toney was always a lazy **** liable to be outworked Not at Toney's best

10) Reggie Johnson would have beaten Michael Nunn at 160 Not seen Johnson

11) The following featherweights are on the same level as Barrera, Morales and Marquez in terms of ability: Sugar Ramos, Rocky Lockridge and Barry McGuigan Ramos and Lockridge yes.

12) Had he been around six or seven years earlier, Larry Holmes would have crushed any hope of Ali being regarded as the top heavyweight of all time Nah

13) Eduardo Lausse would have knocked prime Roy Jones out cold. Nah, he'd be thoroughly outboxed, but if he did land he'd do some damage

14) Mark Johnson beats Johnny Tapia, Jiro Watanabe, Sung Kil Moon, Santos Laciar and Nana Konadu at 115 Not seen Johnson

15) Packey McFarland was actually better than Benny Leonard or Joe Gans, but didn’t get the chance to prove it Don't know, he looks good on film

16) Bob Fitzsimmons’ resume is no match for Jermain Taylor’s Indeed

17) Pernell Whitaker goes title-less in the 1940’s and 1970’s Nope

18 ) Emile Griffith doesn’t make welterweight top 10 lists if it wasn’t for his connections If you discount all his close decisions he would still have a pretty solid Welterweight reign and some good wins, it woud just increase Rodriguez up a lot more.

19) Sumbu Kalambay outboxes James Toney, Joey Giardello and Dick Tiger He very well could

20) We are currently living through the worst era in boxing in the last 100 years Yes, but its not that bad

21) Ken Buchanan would beat Hector Camacho at lightweight Yes

22) Edwin Rosario would crush Willie PepNah, even when he was younger and a better boxer, I think Pep would out-maneuver and stop him getting set to really unload

23) Brian Mitchell beats Joel Casamayor, Diego Corrales and Genaro Hernandez
Not seen Mitchell

24) Sandy Saddler drops a decision to Johnny Famechon because Johnny is too wily on the outside and too educated on the inside with his infighting ability Not a prime Saddler, he seems hell for boxer types IMO

25) Charley Scott, Ralph Dupas, Del Flanagan and Jose Stable all show Miguel Cotto how it’s done Yeh, although Flangan might not.

26) Johnny Saxton would beat Donald Curry (corrupt decision aside) Never

27) Freddie Pendleton vs. Edwin Rosario could have gone either way I think Rosario would edge it

28 ) The Frankie Randall that fought Chavez in 1994 would have held his own with a 1996 DLH Yes

28 ) A prime Ayub Kalule beats Herol Graham Dunno

29) Jorge Fernandez would beat Terry Norris, Winky Wright and Julian Jackson He probably could, he'd have the power to get Norris out of there, I think Wright could be tough as Wright is very physically strong and Fernandez has to be going forward to be effective, Wrights strength and jab may halt him in his tracks, but then I just see Fernandez having the better work. And with Jackson, going straight at Jackson ain't wise but I think he has the defence to get forward and hit Jackson to take him out.

30) Luis Federico Thompson plays with Tito Trinidad Not plays with him, could beat him though

31) If Kenny Lane was boxing in the late 2000’s, early 2010’s everyone would think he was top 100 all time. I'm not that impressed with him, I doubt it.

32) Mike McCallum gets outboxed by Joey Archer Yes

33) Just admit it, Paulie Ayala was a better bantamweight than Johnny Tapia No opinion

34) Walter McGowan would have outboxed Hilario Zapata He could have, would have been a great fight.

35) Yoko Gushiken has the worst skill to resume ratio of all time Yeh

 

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I'll try and respond later SS, very difficuly, great thread

 

1) agree, not close IMO
2) great fight, but wasn't Whitaker v McGirt at 140?
3) Disagree, lots of very good/great featherweights in that timeframe
4) agree
5) disagree, punching power for one is a natural talent
6) disagree
7) disagree, the Tunney win says A LOT
8) I don't thnk Legra goes unbeaten against that lot
9) disagree
10) disagree
11) Chang is a very tough out for Canto, tentatively agree
12) not Arguello at 130, but yes at 135. Ortiz is a tossup IMO
13) not enough info (video footage) for me
14) Yeah, Tommy was a beast at 147.
15) Disagree.
16) Agree, but close
17) Mickey Ward's movie is better than anything he did in the ring, by far.
18) Jake could be Hagler and Monzon, but I'd take those guys 7 or 8 outta 10.
19) The Rock is beatable. A young Joe Louis at 198?
20) No clue about freddie Dawson
21) see above
22) Qawi is abit overrated for my taste. A prime Saad cuts him down IMO. He never beat Larry.
23) Tyson had natural limitations, but the other stuff hastened his demise.
24) probable that Eder just digs a little deeper than Olivares but not a slam dunk IMO
25) sure, Jackson could take him out. But Benvenuti takes 3 of 4.
26) and twice on Sunday.
27) Giardello maybe, but not Archer for me. Jones is overrated at 175, but probably underrated at 160.
28) Disagree, but Fenech would take them to bad places.
29) Little to choose between Johnson, Galindez, Conteh IMO
30) I actually like Spinks against Charles better at 175 than Heavy.
Excellent thread!!!

 

Disagree

 

Gushiken cheated himself(and us out of some great matchups) by fighting at light Fly.

are you a fan of McGuigan sweet?.Kind of refreshing to see someone supporting his ability in among all the hate and dismissals

 

I let those out where I think I don´t have enough knowledge to give a decent answer.

 

1) Barry McGuigan was a better fighter than Ricky Hatton all things considered - Yep

2) Buddy McGirt vs. Harold Brazier would have been the best technical fight seen at 140 in the last 30 years - Hard to say. Not likely

3) Ernesto Marcel would have walked into the 80's, 90's or 2000's featherweight scene and locked it down like Joseph Fritzl did his daughter -Did well, yes? Walk though no.

4) Johnny Famechon would have been in the top handful of fighters p4p today -No

5) Kid Gavilan was more naturally talented than Sugar Ray Leonard -No

6) Henry Armstrong would not have been considered a top 20 fighter all time had he had to come through the Williams/Jack/Mongomery/Angott/Joyce/Dawson era of lightweights in his prime - NO WAY.

7) Harry Greb beat a lot of great fighters, but there is no guarantee he beats the really elite fighters around his weight (e.g. Hagler, Monzon, Langford) and so his standing as a top 5 p4p fighter is a little suspect - No, Greb is top 5 p4p

8 ) Jose Legra would have beaten Barrera, Morales and Marquez - Never saw Legra

9) Floyd Mayweather is amongst the best 20 fighters of all time in a h2h sense - Almost! He needs one more big win. So no for now.

10) Willie Pep would have been Vicente Saldivar's ***** - Maybe

11) Miguel Canto could not deal with the mixture of speed, aggression and intuition that Jung Koo Chang brings to the table -Yes

12) Julio Cesar Chavez would have beaten Carlos Ortiz and Alexis Arguello - Nope.

13) Charley Burley at his best beats the likes of Kid Gavilan, Luis Rodriguez and Jose Napoles at their best - Yes

14) Tommy Hearns was more of a handful for welterweights than he was for junior middleweights, despite improving his strength and physicality at 154 - Yes

15) Bernard Hopkins would lose to Gene Fullmer peak vs. peak - Could lose, not would.

16) Simon Brown would have beat Manny Pacquiao at welterweight - No

17) Micky Ward had the best left rip to the body of all time and I'm afraid to admit it because he was so mediocre as a fighter - No

18 ) Jake Lamotta was good enough to beat Marvin Hagler and Carlos Monzon - No

19) Rocky Marciano takes anyone sub 200 pounds in the history of the sport - NO

20) Freddie Dawson would have been every bit as great as a Duilio Loi or Nicolino Locche if he had the luxury of milking home town fights - No

21) Jim Driscoll caught Abe Attell unawares and would have been exposed as nothing more than a Ricky Hatton level fighter had he stayed and spent his prime in the States - No

22) Dwight Qawi would have pushed Larry's **** in had he moved up in 85. - No

23) Mike Tyson was exposed for having natural limitations rather than being brought down through environmental factors - Yes

24) Eder Jofre would have beaten Ruben Olivares because even though Ruben was smoother and probably the harder hitter, Jofre simply had more ticker - Would have been a great fight. I would give Jofre a slight edge.

25) Nino Benvenuti would have been knocked out cold by Julian Jackson - Jackson could KO anyone his weight cold.

26) Billy Graham would have beat Terry Norris - Need to see more on Graham

27) Joey Archer would have a decent chance of winning a decision against the Roy Jones that Bernard Hopkins fought - Yes

28 ) Jeff Fenech would have taken both Harada and Jofre at 118, despite being ranked quite a bit below both - No way,

29) Harold Johnson beats both Victor Galindez and John Conteh - No

30) Michael Spinks beats Ezzard Charles more often than not at either light heavy or heavy - No.

 

Passed on the ones where my knowledge wasn´t sufficient for a decent answer.

 

Here are the statements:



1) Barry McGuigan was a better fighter than Ricky Hatton all things considered -

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5) Kid Gavilan was more naturally talented than Sugar Ray Leonard -

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19) Rocky Marciano takes anyone sub 200 pounds in the history of the sport -

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22) Dwight Qawi would have pushed Larry's **** in had he moved up in 85.

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23) Mike Tyson was exposed for having natural limitations rather than being brought down through environmental factors

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30) Michael Spinks beats Ezzard Charles more often than not at either light heavy or heavy

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