What does everyone think of this Wladimir Klitschko-Lennox Lewis article

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Jun 22, 2008.


  1. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Wladimir Klitschko = A Weaker Version of Lennox Lewis?

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    By Jim Dower: While I was watching a couple old fights this week of Lennox Lewis (41-2-1, 32 KOs), I couldn’t help but notice the similarity of his style and that of the current IBF/WBO heavyweight champion Wladimir Klitschko (50-3, 44 KOs), both of whom have the same trainer Emanuel Steward. Like Lewis, Klitschko has an excellent jab, maybe the best in all of boxing when he remembers to throw it, is about as equally as tall as Lewis at 6′6″, has a weak chin, and often is lacking in aggression when going after his opponents. In a way, Klitschko is almost an exact copy of Lewis, although not quite as good as him in any one category other than hand speed, which is the one area that Wladimir Klitschko is clearly superior to Lewis in.
    Both Lewis and Klitschko have an excellent right hand, and are capable (in the case of Lewis, he used to be capable of scoring knockouts but sadly is now long retired from boxing) of scoring one-punching knockouts. Lewis’ right hand was definitely a little better than Klitschko’s, and he also was much more confident about throwing it than Klitschko, as well. Although there were some fights, in particular against David Tua and the first fight against Hasim Rahman, where Lewis was clearly timid about letting his right hand go and fought pretty much a safety first fight.


    Klitschko, before he was trained by Steward, had little qualms about letting his hands go, whether it be his right hand or his dangerous left hook, he was always bringing it nonstop. In knockout losses to Ross Puritty and Corrie Sanders, Klitschko’s wide open attack-oriented offense got him in trouble when he was taken out. The same occurred in his fight with Lamon Brewster in April 2004, Wladimir’s first fight with Steward as his trainer, in which Wladimir attempted to take Brewster out with a swarm of punches in the first four rounds, but then quickly ran out of gas and was subsequently stopped by Brewster in the 5th round.
    Following that fight, Steward set out to slowing down the pace of Wladimir, making him more economical with his punches, having him use his jab much more often and getting him to clinch frequently, much like the same way Lewis used to do. Since that time, Wladimir has thoroughly learned Steward’s style (the Lewis style) of fighting, so much so that it’s hard to remember how Klitschko used to fight before signing Steward on as a trainer.
    However, there’s one area that Steward has been much less successful in changing Klitschko’s to be more like Lewis, and that’s in the way that Wladimir deals with pressure. Unlike Lewis, who would be calm, thinking strategy, and getting his competitive fire lit when attacked, Klitschko seems to fall to pieces, looking stressed out and not reacting well to being pressured. It’s almost like he’s not used to it, perhaps because of the large amount of easy foes he fought in the front half of his career while he was building his impressive knockout string of victories. Whether it is that, or something ingrained in him that can’t be changed, it seems that Klitschko to this day, still doesn’t handle pressure very well and tends to panic.
    So far, other than the fight with Brewster which Klitschko lost, Steward has been able to get Klitschko to calm down in between rounds. A prime example was in Klitschko’s exciting fight with Samuel Peter in 2005, where Peter knocked Wladimir down three times in the fight, and had him confused looking and scared in between rounds at times. Steward, however, had a great calming effect on Wladimir and gave him a huge burst of confidence each time. It’s regrettable that Wladimir can’t fight that way all the time, that he needs Steward to give him pep talks when he comes apart, but it’s something that will likely not go away in the future.
    With that one problem, I’d have say that Klitshko is much less a fighter than Lewis is, because regardless of how close their physical boxing skills are, Lewis was much better at keeping it together when attacked. As far as stamina goes, that’s also an area where Lewis would have to be rated as the better fighter. He would tend to slow down a little in some of his fights, but not nearly enough for it to be a problem for him. In fact, I can’t recall one fight, other than perhaps his last fight against Vitali Klitschko in June 2003, that Lewis tired out and where his stamina was a problem for him.
    In that fight, however, Lewis has a huge excuse because he had trained for a fight with Kirk Johnson (and appeared not to train as hard) and not for a fight against the rugged 6’8” older Klitschko brother. Even then, Lewis was hurting Vitali in the last two rounds and appeared to have him ready to go in the 6th round of the fight. The fight was stopped after the sixth round due to the severe cuts that Vitali had sustained in the bout, courtesy of Lewis’ powerful right hands.
    I can’t see Lewis losing to fighters like Puritty, Sanders or Brewster, all of which I believe Lewis would stop without much problems. As far as records go, Lewis appeared to fight the much tougher opponents over the course of his career and never attempted to dodge anyone, the way that Klitschko appears to be doing by side-stepping around both Alexander Povetkin, his IBF mandatory, and David Haye, an exciting fighter that has been calling Klitschko out constantly for the past two months without success. Lewis would have taken both of them on without hesitation and knocked both out within six rounds or so.
     
  2. punchy

    punchy Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I don't know about a weaker version just simply not as good is a better description, Jim Dower seems to think VK was ready to go after six rounds with Lewis which differs from most on this forum who think if not for cuts VK would have won, I view I don't hold.
     
  3. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    They are definitely similar, but there are clear differences that are often forgotten. For whatever reason, a lot of people remember Lewis as a boring fighter, while he mixed it up quite often (perhaps more than he should've) and took a lot of left-hook risks with those favored right-uppercuts of his. Klitschko is far less aggressive and has a great left hook where Lewis has a great right uppercut.
     
  4. slicksouthpaw16

    slicksouthpaw16 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Lewis was the more elusive/loose/fluent boxer while klitschko is very stiff and hesitant. Thats simply becuase of that china jaw that he has. Everytime that he is caught on the chin flush, his world is always rattled. Lewis had the much better chin and i am one of the few that would say that his chin was pretty good. He took hard punches from big bangers such as Tua, Bruno, Marovich, Vitali Klitschko, Mercer and a lot of others. The punches that you don't see is that gets you. Klitschko's jaw is so weak that he can even see the shot coming and still be shaken by it. Lewis also fought the much bettet fighters in a better era. Yeah, I'm not too fond of Wladimir, but Vitali could have done some good things if his body held up. He was a special fighter that not only take a hard shot, but could dish one out and was very skilled for his size. Probably the only 6'8 fighter that could counter effectively and fight going backward.
     
  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    This is the key. Now that Steward has Klitschko, he is going to be very hard to beat. Perhaps harder than Lewis because Wlad does not have a smug ego as Lewis had. I beleive if Steward was in the corner Wlad never loses to Purrity because Steward tells Wlad to forget eh KO and take the win far before he tires. Universum's corner back then was in the stone ages. Their advice and work in-between rounds with Sanders was poor. I also beleive Steward would not pick Sanders for a non-mandatory, and if he was picked, Wlad would take him more seriously than he did, and be prepared.

    The author misses three things.

    1 ) Wlad is an even better clincher, has better footwork / mobility, better speed, and better defense now.

    2 ) Lewis was a skilled " bend the rules " fighter. Wlad is a very clean fighter. I suppose is Wlad wants to learn how to hit and hold, push a man down, and use other parts of his body besides his glove to mark his man up, he has more to learn.

    3 ) Wlad will not make his name on past their prime fighters. Lewis cemented his legacy in beating a past his prime Holyfield and a shot Mike Tyson. These are the fights Lewis will be best rememembered for 50 years from now. Unfortunately, this is how legacies sometimes work in boxing.
     
  6. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The article's quite biased in my view. I don't think there's that much of a difference in class between Lewis and Klitschko. Lewis clearly was superior, but not to the extent that the article refers to.

    I agree about Klitschko's inability to deal well with pressure though.
     
  7. lamont zero

    lamont zero Member Full Member

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    Man,what the hell are you talking about!!???

    Wladimir Klitschko fought a whole bunch of crap in the most boring division you can imagine. Lennox beat ATG's and some other guys that were good men and would trouble a lot of the champions today.

    Lennox footwork was very good and much better than Klitschkos. Watch Lewis vs Tua again and you can see the beauty of LL.

    Moreover Lewis clinched very effectively. Klitschko,so it seems, ist unable to do it smooth,he looks panic and stiff.

    Lewis was a special man,a beautyful Heavyweight Champion with a big heart and a bigger ego.

    Klitschko is a poor mans version of LL.
     
  8. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    How big was his ****? By the sounds of your post, you should know.
     
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Better than he was in the past? Or better than Lewis?

    I agree with this, though I believe that Wlad's persistant pawing at Ibragimov's fists is an illegal manauvere.

    Hollyfield was a live threat and a very good fighter when Lewis beat him. Tyson was not. But "cemented" is the right word, these are the fights that have made his name with the public, for those of us interested in the fight game, we know that his resume is much more impressive than these two names, don't we?
     
  10. punchy

    punchy Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Would we ever see Wladimir mix it up in a fight like the Grant fight I doubt it, Lewis is a top ten all time Wlad has matured though under Steward and is much harder to defeat which is the name of the game if sometimes boring.
     
  11. radianttwilight

    radianttwilight Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I don't buy into the "Steward has made Wladimir into a much better fighter" argument.

    He's made him into a different fighter, yes, but not necessarily a better one.
     
  12. The Kurgan

    The Kurgan Boxing Junkie banned

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    :huh

    By your own admission, Wlad infringes on the rules on a regular basis.

    That is Wlad's problem. I think, if he'd come a long in a tougher era, he'd have more losses but be more appreciated because he'd have beaten better and more recognisable boxers as well as given ATG boxers tough fights.

    As has already been noted, the comparison is flawed in that it fails to notice that Lewis was a far more exciting boxer. Apart from the Tua fight (which wasn't boring at the time) and much of the Tucker fight (until they started trading) Lewis was never a boring boxer, especially after the McCall loss when it suddenly felt like anything could happen with the next landed punch.
     
  13. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    I think this is a common mistake that is often made when viewing this fight in hindsight.

    First of all, Tyson was the #2 rated contender by ring magazine. There are some duds ranked in the top10 now and then, but anyone at #2 should at least be considered a "live threat". Just because he couldn't take out Lewis doesn't mean he was no threat. Let's not forget that the betting odds were just about even and Lewis had just been stopped by Rahman. Tyson, while far from as good as he used to be, was still a devastating puncher early on (Botha with one punch, Golota, Savarese, etc) with an iron chin.


    A lot of people tend to under-rate this win because when they hear Tyson they think about the guy that removed Thomas from his senses, knocked Berbick down three times with one punch, etc. Sure, that guy was no more, but he was still a dangerous opponent in 2002, especially if you consider Lewis was 36 as well.
     
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Round one, Tyson looked like a really good fighter, he won that first round in my view - despite the two monster shots Lewis landed on the backfoot.

    In the second round he looked like ****. I didn't score him another round. That's a near-shut out until Lewis scored a brutal knock out. It's a good win, but it's not in the Hollyfield neighbourhood.
     
  15. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    I agree it's not close to as good as the Holyfield win, but i'd like to point out that how little he did in rounds 2-4 also had something to do with Lewis himself. As said, against Golota he was still excellent in the 2nd and against Botha he found the punch as "late" as the 5th. He did land a great left hook somewhere in round 2 or 3, though.


    Great avatar by the way, one of my favorite fights. Hadn't seen that picture before yet. :good