What does everyone think of this Wladimir Klitschko-Lennox Lewis article

Byrd and Ruiz were not in Lewis's class, this is why no one would want to see the fight.

 

Why wasn't it? Tyson was knocking guys out early and often in pretty devastating fashion as well.

"Some thought he could still knock Lewis out" - This is simply not true.

First of all, a LOT of people thought he'd knock Lewis out. Lennox was 36 himself and just got lambasted by Rahman. Tyson on the other hand came off a string of knockout wins. Not the best opponents around, but Golota, Botha and Savarese are good and more important is the way he won.

That doesn't sound very logical to me. I would say the thing that makes sense is to see what he did going in to the fight. He took a horrific beating against Lewis that certainly took something out of him, didn't have his next fight until a year later which lasted less than three minutes, then took another year off, etc. Combine that with the fact that he was adding heavy weighing years post-35 and had a drugs/party lifestyle and the downfall is pretty apparant.

Applying your logic of looking at the guys record after the fight - how impressive are Marciano's wins over Walcott, Charles and Louis? You know better than that.

Tell me how that works.

No really, tell me. Because if they were manipulated then i'd like to know during which future big fights the odds are much better than supposed to be; i'll be a rich man.

Yes, yes yes. And in hindsight, Foreman was completely hopeless against Ali and his window of opportunity, given Ali's chin and survival instinct, was zero. So, let's not give Ali credit for that win?

 

I agree with Chris. Lewis should get credit for turning back the challenge of the Tyson mystique. That chin was the reason why Tyson was given pretty hefty chances in this bout, because, though a few thousand light years from his prime, Mike Tyson challenging for all the marbles was still a handful for any champ. And, yes, though older, Lewis did what a great champion would do.

And Wladimir is simply not as athletically gifted, or even durable, or even mentally tough as Lewis. Little things mean a lot, so Lewis is much more than Wlad.

 

I actually think Wladimir is at least as athletically gifted if not moreso, he just doesn't have that fighting heart.

 

Wladimir has similarities to Lennox but he just isnt as good.

Lennox wasnt a tentative fighter, he could box but could be ultra aggressive aswel, would wlad dismiss Golota and Grant so quickly for example? Cant see it.

LL never had a fight where he was seen to be scared unlike wlads 'performance' against Ibragimov.

Lewis TKO 6 Wlad.

 

If you go by internet forums then yes, a lot of people thought Tyson could win, but blatant fanboyism cannot be regarded as legitimate opinion. How many real experts were picking Tyson?

Well let's look at Tyson's performances leading up to the Lewis fight then.

Botha - an unimpressive come-from-behind victory here. Ferdie Pacheco prior to the KO said "This is not even half of Tyson." The KO was great, but his performance was not good. This was also three years prior to the Lewis fight.

Norris - We didn't get to see much here.

Julius Francis - good KO against a badly outclassed opponent. How good was Francis?

Saverese - Maybe his best showing in a long time. Looked sharp, but what if the fight had stretched beyond the first or second round?

Golota - A good performance against Golota, himself a bit faded. But Andrew was coming back into that fight somewhat before capitulating.

Nielsen - Tyson looked unimpressive and struggled to stop admittedly tough Nielsen.

Is it coincidence that when the fight went past 2 or 3 rounds, Tyson struggled? (in the Nielsen and Botha fights)
He was winning handily against Nielsen who offered very little in return, but he looked poor. He was very unimpressive against Botha.
Look, Tyson always, always, always had a good first round - even after Lewis he continued to impress in the opening stanza. Most his fights leading up to the Lewis fight were short where we didn't get to see him extended. That was the knock against Mike - all fine and well, but what's he going to be like in the 7th, 8th round? Nobody knew, because he wasn't stretched to that point by anyone he fought.

What's the conventional wisdom around these parts? After six rounds or so, Tyson slows down; becomes less dangerous. That's the PRIME version. How diminished would the same man fighting 16 years after winning the title be?

I don't bet so wouldn't know. But weren't the Tyson-Douglas odds inflated by bookies to encourage at least some betting? I have read about this sort of thing before. I'm not saying they were definitely manipulated, but it's been known to happen before.

Looking at what you wrote and what I wrote, there is clearly a disconnect somewhere as to how we view just how dangerous Tyson was a that stage of his career.

You seem to think he still had a legitimate chance of beating Lewis, whereas I feel he only had a puncher's chance - which is how I felt going into the fight by the way.

 

I left out the rest of your post because we're not getting any further and simply disagree, however this part i'd like to respond to.

I never suggested that Tyson had more than a puncher's chance - in fact, even a peak Tyson has little more than a puncher's chance, even if that is a very large puncher's chance. Tyson outboxing Lewis is as good very unlikely to happen in any case.

However, that considering Lewis was old too and had just been knocked out by Rahman, Tyson had a pretty good puncher's chance going in against Lewis.

It was stamina what costed him in those fights, indeed.

Before Steward trained him, Klitschko had a very stupid training regime that mostly consisted of lifting weights and never sparring more than 4 rounds subsequently. Thus, while he hit very hard, his stamina was very bad. Steward made him do more roadwork and the "classic" boxing training and you can see the result as he didn't get pinned on the ropes or corners on a single occasion during 12 rounds against Peter, stopped Brock late and never tired during other fights. Threw 70+ powerpunches in the 5th against Byrd and just continued doing what he did in the 6th and 7th without any signs of fatigue. You can also see that his physique went from almost a bodybuilder to boxer during that period.

 

Chris, you are aware what "puncher's chance" means?

 

Yes, it means that 5'11" 70" reach Tyson will outjab Lewis and win a wide decision, like Tua did. :good