What does pac have 2 do 2 be the p4p best of all time??

It's a tricky one this 'all time' stuff.

On one hand you want to give the old timers full credit for all their accomplishments and many fights, but on the other hand you don't want to exclude great present day fighters from being mentioned in the same breath, simply because they had less fights/ didn't have quite the same opposition level.

I think if Manny beat Mosley, Floyd and Paul Williams for a 154 belt it would be a perfectly legitimate statement. But it's all subjective anyway. Getting into most peoples top 10 ATG list is really all that matters as far as true boxing immortality goes. Hell even top 20 does it.

 

bang on

and let's be honest the question is: what does manny have to do for people to rate him above sugar ray robinson?

there is nothing he can do. fair or not, he will NEVER be rated by most above SRR

 

Have you seen the guys who are the top ATGs? You think they were not good enough to be there? Because if you think they were not that great, yeah let's put Pacman there for beating Cotto. It should be hard to get to the ATG list as it is. People should be happy to be in the top 100 it is such an exclusive list. Those guys had great careers also. Even the guys who are 150 ATG have had great careers. For Pacman to be number one ATG ever? He would have to beat Mosley, Mayweather (by knockouts), move up and beat Williams and then beat Dawson and maybe then he would have a chance at ATG ever. It takes a lot to be ATG top guy. Also, the fighters nowadays are not as good as before. So first you have to figure did the guys he beat-do they measure up to ATG's also. The last 4 guys Pacman beat only one was ATG in my mind. Oscar, and he was diminished. The 130 pound guys he beat I think Barrera and Morales are the ATG guys there who are on the ATG list. So Pacman has fought and beaten 3 ATG's so far. Ray Leonard beat 4 ATGS, and the 4 Ray beat were much higher up the ranking than the 3 Pacman beat.

 

I also almost agree with this. If he were to beat Mosley,Mayweather,Williams and Dawson still he would be the top ATG 5 list probably. That is why I am so hard on Duran. I think Duran is great, but to be ATG top 10, you have to be better than 1-5 against the legends of the 80s. Regardless of excuses.

 

Great post :good

 

unify welter division, move up and unify 154 and 160

 

beat mayweather, SSM, KO JMM, win a title at 154, win a title at 160.

winning a fight vs mayweather would put him ridiculously high though.

 

good post.

you dont think Marquez is an all time great?

 

all time p4p rankings are pointless. as ali said, you can only be the best in your time.

someone said pac would have to unify welter and junior middle to overtake srr. wtf? you know how much time that would take. pac would be 100 yo before that can happen with all the negotiations etc. back in srr's day, to "unify" a division, you beat 1 guy. ONE. now, you have to beat, what, 3,4,5? of course you can beat "the man" at the division, but who is that? the linear champ? the "universally acknowledged" champ?

 

in other words manny will never be the #1 P4P of All Time.

 

Just give up that dream..
Manny could win the HW championship & peep's will still never put him w/SRR.
(Me included, It's just the way it is)

 

Nothing . . . and I don't think he'll be recognized as such no matter what he accomplish.

Cracking the top 5 "all time" . . . would be good enough . . . at least for me.

 

The old days are just too deep in history and the old fighters fought far too often for Pac to breach the greatest of all time tag in my opinion.

He'd need to KO Pavlik or something really stupid to even be considered and even then there would be no universal agreement.

 

i don't think srr should be either. especially with the dilemna of the heavyweights.
all-time rankings are ridiculous already. all-time P4P rankings are just nonsensical.