What Does Williams Have That Pavlik Hasn't Seen??

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by booradley, Sep 30, 2009.


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  1. booradley

    booradley Mean People Kick Ass! Full Member

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    From what I've seen most of the people who pick Williams over Pavlik do so based on reach, work rate, and angles. However, it is my contention that although PW presents a unique package, he does not bring anything to the ring that Pavlik has not seen and dealt with.

    Speed: Williams isn't any faster than Taylor.

    Reach: PW's overall reach is deceptive. His arm length advantage is only 1 inch. Oddly enough, Paul's arms are the same length as Miranda's according to numbers on HBO.

    Size: Pavlik has fought at, near, or above the super middleweight limit 14 times. His record in those fights is 13-1 with 11 knockouts. Paul has two credible wins above 147. He hasn't done anything above 160. This is one area where there is a huge gap in experience.

    Height: If you check the stats on past opposition, you'll see that this is another area where there is a huge experience gap, and once again, the edge favors KP.

    Work rate: This is one that I just don't get. Go check the stats on Pavlik/Miranda. In the very first round of that fight Miranda threw 94 punches. Pavlik threw 97. By round 4 KP shut Miranda's work rate way down, and Miranda keeps his freaking hands up. Paul does not. In general Pavlik thrives on aggressive fighters, but PW has never faced the combination of height, reach, size, strength, power, and aggression that Pavlik brings.

    Power: Paul throws a ton of arm punches, he shoe-shines and flurries a lot. Pavlik throws to hurt ya. No middleweight has every seen the 10th round with KP. Kelly spent his entire career fighter bigger men than Paul fought, and yet KP's KO ratio is 15% higher than Paul's.

    Ring craft: It took a great performance by Bernard Hopkins to beat Pavlik. It took a great performace from Carlos Quintana to beat Williams. Do the math.

    Angles: Yes Paul throws a lot of punches from odd angles, but everytime he does that he leaves himself open to something that comes right down the pipe, and KP became middleweight champion of the world throwing straight punches.

    I believe that how this fight plays out depends on Paul's fight plan, but yesterday he said, "I don't have a plan." Sometime back Paul's trainer said PW doesn't need to do anything special because Pavlik's chin is grade A china.

    KP by KO
     
    booradley, Sep 30, 2009
    booradley, Sep 30, 2009
    #1
  2. Ring Master

    Ring Master The Originator Full Member

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    Yea yeah we all know already!
     
    Ring Master, Sep 30, 2009
    Ring Master, Sep 30, 2009
    #2
  3. booradley

    booradley Mean People Kick Ass! Full Member

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    Then why is it still considered a 50/50 fight?
     
    booradley, Sep 30, 2009
    booradley, Sep 30, 2009
    #3
  4. truushot

    truushot Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Williams is faster then Taylor.

    It is one thing to have a high work rate against someone standing in front of you. Marquez always had a good work rate but when you can't catchup to the guy you are fighting your rate goes way down.
     
    truushot, Sep 30, 2009
    truushot, Sep 30, 2009
    #4
  5. Ring Master

    Ring Master The Originator Full Member

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    Boo, this is not considered a 50-50 fight. Anyone who knows...knows..
     
    Ring Master, Sep 30, 2009
    Ring Master, Sep 30, 2009
    #5
  6. Spunik

    Spunik Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I think it's 50-50...

    I think Pavlik has to knock him out to win. If it goes to the cards I favor Williams.
     
    Spunik, Sep 30, 2009
    Spunik, Sep 30, 2009
    #6
  7. Jay23

    Jay23 Guest

    Most of this seems true however , Ring craft: you used BHOP and Quintana as examples thats a bit loose IMO as PW sparked out Quintana RD1 in the rematch, some how I dont think KP wouuld be doing anything but losing convincing again if he rematched BHOP!!
    I think its fair to put PW loss to Quintana down as an off night as he emphatically showed in their rematch :deal
     
    Jay23, Sep 30, 2009
    Jay23, Sep 30, 2009
    #7
  8. pipe wrenched

    pipe wrenched ESB ELITE SQUAD Full Member

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    Nope, I read the threads....:deal

    50/50.

    :lol::p
     
    pipe wrenched, Sep 30, 2009
    pipe wrenched, Sep 30, 2009
    #8
  9. walk with me

    walk with me Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    what the **** are you talking about?

    seriously....
     
    walk with me, Sep 30, 2009
    walk with me, Sep 30, 2009
    #9
  10. pipe wrenched

    pipe wrenched ESB ELITE SQUAD Full Member

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    If you'd seen most all of Pav's fights, and consider Thomas Hauser a respectable journalist/author, then it's also fair to say Pavlik had an off night too.:deal

    Not even tryin' to say that Pav would have won, but it would have been a lot better than that.

    Therefore, I think the "picture" boo was tryin' to paint comparin' Quintana and B-Hop is valid.:yep
     
    pipe wrenched, Sep 30, 2009
    pipe wrenched, Sep 30, 2009
    #10
  11. Pavlik is Champ

    Pavlik is Champ PDub is RUNNING scared Full Member

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    pavlik will have murder charges against him after the williams fight
     
    Pavlik is Champ, Sep 30, 2009
    Pavlik is Champ, Sep 30, 2009
    #11
  12. walk with me

    walk with me Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    see this is the type of **** that ruins every single pavlik - williams thread


    this point is totally ******ed and has 0 validity what so ever

    jermain taylor beat bhop twice

    if kelly pavlik fought bhop 10 times... he wouldnt win more than 10 rounds

    kelly pavlik knocked jermain taylor the **** out

    paul williams lost maybe 8 rounds to quintana
    then came back to take his soul in 90 seconds

    so once again i ask you.. what the **** are you talking about
     
    walk with me, Sep 30, 2009
    walk with me, Sep 30, 2009
    #12
  13. BizarroRJJ

    BizarroRJJ Active Member Full Member

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    Paul will be just like Taylor was in the rematch with the exception of: Paul will have the stamina to go all 12 rounds, Paul will have the speed advantage, Paul will have the thrown/landed advantage, Paul will have greater/better movement.

    Only way Pavlik wins this is via KO, which is possible since he can punch. But if Taylor can last 12 rounds in the rematch when "boxing" Pavlik, cant see how Paul cant/wont last and win the majority of the rounds based on his activity level/reach advantage/stamina.
     
    BizarroRJJ, Sep 30, 2009
    BizarroRJJ, Sep 30, 2009
    #13
  14. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    I would say the variety of punches williams throws while staying active.... Williams indeed has his own style, and i will be interested to see how this fight plays out.
     
    kirk, Sep 30, 2009
    kirk, Sep 30, 2009
    #14
  15. JETSKI

    JETSKI Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    :rofl

    He has a good lawyer!:good
     
    JETSKI, Sep 30, 2009
    JETSKI, Sep 30, 2009
    #15
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