What exactly is Wilder's resume built upon?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by red corner, Oct 22, 2021.

  1. BubblesUK

    BubblesUK Doesn't buy hypejobs Full Member

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    Problem is, the quality of opposition really does matter.

    This isn't darts or golf where you play your own game and your opponent is either better or they're not... That's not how boxing works - the better your opponent is, the harder it is to produce your best, the harder it is to keep technique tidy, the harder it is to look impressive.

    Ortiz having a resume full of bums actually does make it hard to rate him - plenty of fighters can look well composed and look like excellent counter punchers against highly predictable plodders... You can't rate a guy on that basis, that's not how boxing works.

    Most heavyweight contenders have resumes with multiple gatekeepers and even another contender or two... Ortiz has basically only Jennings at gatekeeper level and Jennings performance was shocking in that fight.

    Ortiz isn't a contender - he never was and never will be.
    Attempting to paint him as a true contender is something only a Wilder fanboi would do to boost Deontay's resume - that ain't how boxing works, you don't get to call a guy a contender just because it's convenient, they have to prove it.
     
  2. hobby rider

    hobby rider Active Member Full Member

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    Wilder is an ATG

    Any man that has managed a W against the irresistible force that is A force Audley Harrison is worthy of high praise.
     
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  3. ButeTheBeast

    ButeTheBeast Well-Known Member Full Member

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    The people who love talking about resumes are Matchroom/Joshua fanboys who are upset.
     
  4. Heavy_Hitter

    Heavy_Hitter Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Stevern was not top 5. His only achievement was knocking out Arreola. At the time Chris really deteorated and had close fights with club fighter like Kassi or Kauffman.
     
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  5. Finkel

    Finkel Active Member Full Member

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    To be fair, I said borderline top 5. But to be more exact:
    PBO rating was #6
    Ring rating was #3
    TBRB rating was #4

    Now I realise many of us have our own personal rankings, but that's why I said borderline top 5.
     
  6. BoxingDialogue

    BoxingDialogue Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Im just pointing out how easy it is to nitpick at someones resume. Its pretty lame honestly. Oh this guy was too young or too old, well who did he ever beat, etc. Seriously just give a man some ****ing credit for a win.
     
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  7. lobk

    lobk Original ESB Member Full Member

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    Then why have rankings and champion. Who you beat does matter on a boxers resume. This isn't about give credit for a win. The win belongs to the boxer's record and nothing takes away from that but are you going to seriously argue on here that that is all that should matter? Well it does matter. Beating up mediocre opponents to pad a record will come out when people look at your record. If you think it is so easy to nit pick then why not counter some of those arguments?
     
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  8. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very physically stay humble Full Member

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    Give the man credit for what? And why?

    If it doesn't matter who you beat or what form they were in at the time why have a concept of credit at all?
     
  9. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very physically stay humble Full Member

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    I'll give the man Wilder some ****ing credit for beating Jason Gavern and Ding a Ling Wilson. He stopped both guys in under four, and Wilson's only ever been stopped nine times in twenty one losses. Yeah, he was old and washed up and never any good in the first place, but he was still a damn good fighter at the time.

    As for those disparaging Wilder's wins against Matthew Greer and Nicolai (the real SNV) Firtha, it's easy to pick holes in someone's resume. What matters is what I arbitrarily think of them to suit my argument. And they were both damn good fighters as well.
     
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  10. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very physically stay humble Full Member

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    Malik Scott is one of the most technically sound heavyweights I've seen in recent years. Didn't stop him being an epic dive bomber when he stepped up to the big stage.

    Are you one of those fighters who feted Adrian Broner as the next P4P king when he was coming up the rankings?
     
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  11. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very physically stay humble Full Member

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    OK, since you've just massively wet the bed and taken it back to resumes, let's pick apart Ortiz's.

    Jennings (Old Man Rivas KOed him with eye issues, slow as molasses Joyce took him to syrup school, Mike T-Rex Perez drew with him but got a dodgy decision go against him on a points deduction)

    Thompson (got outhustled by Chisora KO victim Takam, outboxed by the stiff mummy Pulev, lost to dive bomber Scott, a hundred and four years old)

    Scott (total dive merchant, got KOed (properly) by Chisora, wet the bed and ran a mile)

    Hammer (just KOed by hands of soap Hughie Fury, nuff said)

    Errr... really struggling to find a fifth guy to make fun of.
     
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  12. Golden_Feather99

    Golden_Feather99 Active Member Full Member

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    I didn't take it back to resumes. I was calling him out for changing his criteria when he compared Ortiz to Solis. Read properly before you start chatting ****.

    How do you criticize Ortiz's resume and then call him poor man's Solis in your next post? And then you act like I moved the goal posts. Try re-reading your posts before you post them.

    If you're calling Ortiz poor man's Solis based on skills then you have no clue wtf you're talking about.

    You clearly don't know what technically sound means. Do you want me to name all the fighters that I thought would make it far based on boxing skills? I can name at least 5 for every 1 AB. Skills matter and just because you can't see **** it doesn't mean its not there. Just because in some cases skills are not enough to take a fighter to the top, it doesn't mean it's irrelevant. Educate yourself.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
  13. tinman

    tinman America Always Full Member

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    The saying you can only beat who is front of you does deserve some consideration in the HW division. It's not like they can move down in weight in most cases to fight better skilled opposition. But the notion of you can only fight who is front of you should only apply IF you actually make an effort to fight the very best the division has to offer which Wilder never did make that effort. So the division was both weak AND, Wilder made it a point to avoid the best there was anyways.

    And as HW goes usually the division is relatively weak. We could get into the weeds about NFL, NBA stealing talent and old school training methods being lost. And yadda yadda yadda. Not saying they dont have merit, but intrinsically speaking HW is typically weaker because the talent pool is shallow.

    In modern times a natural HW is typically 6'5" or taller barefoot. Less than 1 percent of adult males on the planet are that big. So there isnt the same pool of talent. Why is 147 and 160 usually strong historically? Because everybody is 5'9" or 5'10".
     
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  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, this has been said so many times it doesn't really need to be said again, but Wilder's resume isn't very good.

    He beat two ranked fighters, Stiverne, who wasn't really very good, and Luis Ortiz, who was probably quite a good fighter but certainly an ageing one.

    Other than that, his defences of his strap were pretty embarrassing, very poor, and the proportion of good defences to bad ones is awful keeping in mind that the first Stiverne fight was for the vacant belt - not a defence. When he defended against Stiverne years later, he was busted and unranked.

    Really, what happened was Wilder came to the title before he was really ready to do the necessary thing with it and so he didn't. He was learning on the job while holding the title and that's always a pity.

    Most of all, there is a HUGE gap between the best fighter he beat - Old Ortiz - and Fury. So we don't really know how he would cope with the fighters in between - guy like Joshua, Povetkin, even Whyte, Wilder came nowhere near any of these guys. Ortiz might be his roof.
     
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  15. miniq

    miniq Big Stiff Idiot Full Member

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    People can try to slight Wilder all they want

    I've had fun doing it myself

    but ultimately that man has a historic rocket right hand, that is undeniable.

    A man is still a man even if he's a bum off the streets, they all take some knocking out.

    Wilder's career has been mismanaged really. Why was he flying to Russia to fight Povo? stupidity. Ortiz fights were the best move he made. Ducking Wlad was probably the right move. Should have got Whyte under his belt at all costs.