What Fighter had a Successful Boxing Career with Virtually NO REAL TALENT???

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by darryl1914, Nov 23, 2009.


  1. JASPER

    JASPER Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Originally Posted by PH|LLA
    I consider talent natural, innate ability. While skills are learned ability. If you look up the definition of the word talent i'm sure natural ability is one of them.

    I agree and that is what I said. But having natural ability does not mean being a talented boxer. Zab has great natural ability, on par with PBF, but no one in their right mind would say that he is as talented. . . .OPPS I MEANT I AGREE WITH THE SECOND HALF THAT NATURAL ABILITY IS INCLUDED IN THE DEFINITION OF TALENT . . . but it is not THE definition of talent.
     
  2. h13vyy

    h13vyy Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Agreed, ring intelligence/generalship and composure are two factors that separate them two immensely. But alot of people wouldn't pick that up because they are INTANGIBLE.
     
  3. Killer Instinct

    Killer Instinct Be formless, shapeless... Full Member

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    I think you've just misinterpretated the title of the thread. Because, if that was the case the majority of boxers under your criteria would have No REAL talent.
     
  4. PH|LLA

    PH|LLA VIP Member Full Member

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    its all relative to the level of their success. Other fighters at the same level as he is are more talented than Hopkins but they are usually less skilled. But I would struggle to say that other fighters on Judah's level are more talented than he is.
     
  5. Killer Instinct

    Killer Instinct Be formless, shapeless... Full Member

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    Question, who's more talented, Rocky Marciano (REAL Talent-exceptional power) Or Bernard Hopkins (No REAL boxing talent) ??

    And yes, this question is meant to be rhetorical.
     
  6. bkamins

    bkamins Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Dude, it's you're opinion. That's fine. And it's fine if you want to stick by it. But please don't suggest (or outright state) that people who don't agree with you are simply incapable of grasping these incredibly complicated concepts. I read what you wrote. I do not agree with it. That's my opinion. Let's move on.
     
  7. Killer Instinct

    Killer Instinct Be formless, shapeless... Full Member

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    I must confess, you have lost me. But im sure what your trying to say makes sense. :good
     
  8. PH|LLA

    PH|LLA VIP Member Full Member

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    What I'm saying is that for the amount of success he has had, Hopkins is not that talented. (if you compare him to other fighters who have reached that kind of level of success)

    But of course if you compare him to someone like Butterbean, Hopkins is the second coming of Jesus.
     
  9. Killer Instinct

    Killer Instinct Be formless, shapeless... Full Member

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    I disagree. I view Hopkins as being exceptionally talented. So in essence, your saying B'hop over achieved?
     
  10. PH|LLA

    PH|LLA VIP Member Full Member

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    In essence I'm saying that Hopkins trained and dedicated himself more than others, which allowed him to achieve more.

    I definately think that Hopkins made the most of his potential.
     
  11. bkamins

    bkamins Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I agree. Natural ability is not the only definition of what it means to be talented, which is what I think is tripping you up. When we think about natural ability in sports we often thing about raw athletic ability: running, jumping, fast hands, fast feet power. But there is also how quickly you learn techniques and properly apply them. Here is a good example: Larry Bird. The man couldn't run, couldn't jump and wasn't all that strong. And yet he was one of the best basketball players of all time. Why? Because he was able to learn the game more quickly than players who may have been more athletic...He learned how to handle the ball, pass, shoot. Sure, those are learned behavior, but it take more than practice to learn them. And truly talented individuals pick them up more quickly than anyone else.

    Hopkins has that. He has the ability to learn defensive and offensive trick and to properly apply them even though he might not have the natural speed or power of more gifted athletes like Roy Jones. That does not, however, mean that he does not have talent. It's just a different kind of talent.
     
  12. Killer Instinct

    Killer Instinct Be formless, shapeless... Full Member

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    I know what your trying to say. Natural talent only takes you so far etc etc.

    Hopkins may not have obvious Exceptional speed, power, agility or whatever but lets face it who does? True, he is the ultimate professional, but you can't ignore that despite not having exceptional physical attributes he is very good all round. Hardly makes him untalented with no REAL boxing talent.
     
  13. PH|LLA

    PH|LLA VIP Member Full Member

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    You all make a good point about Hopkins having some talents outside the ring that made him a better fighter inside the ring, and thats exactly waht I was referring to when I said :

    "But what he does have in leaps and bounds is intelligence, focus and dedication. I think that he used those "talents" which are not really boxing talents but actually life talents to hone his boxing craft to a level that allows him to be superior to the others."

    I didn't expect this thread to be a 5 page debate about my comment or else I would have re-worded it.
     
  14. bkamins

    bkamins Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Practice will only get you so far. You must have natural talent and the ability to learn more quickly than your peers. Every champion has that. I don't care if we're talking about soccer, boxing or basketball. All those guys practice their butts off. But it is the competitors who learn faster, or possess natural abilities that excel. Does Hopkin has less natural physical talent than Mayweather, yes. But that doesn't mean he lacks talent.
     
  15. Killer Instinct

    Killer Instinct Be formless, shapeless... Full Member

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    :good