What fights have you watched today?

Discussion in 'MMA Forum' started by lufcrazy, Jan 28, 2017.


  1. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Yup agree totally. Overeem at 205 could be as dangerous as heck for a few minutes ... then gas spectacularly.
     
  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Yeah he's not even a small HW, he's a huge HW so boiling down like he did was stupid.

    He'll never be considered a great LHW but he could well be one of the top ten h2h HW fighters in history.
     
  3. UnleashtheFURY

    UnleashtheFURY D'oh! Full Member

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    He's not naturally that big though. Back then he had the same kind of frame as Gus or Jones, at most he was cutting down from 220-225.
     
  4. UnleashtheFURY

    UnleashtheFURY D'oh! Full Member

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    Still pretty much the same story today... :lol:
     
  5. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I just think cutting that weight was something he didn't need to do. With his size and dimensions he didn't need to be a LHW especially the way he kept gassing and being knocked out.

    I think the fact he is grossly more successful as a HW proves that as well.
     
  6. UnleashtheFURY

    UnleashtheFURY D'oh! Full Member

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    After he roided his way up in weight.... With his frame in Pride all of the heavyweights would have ragdolled him. He's a naturally slim guy.

    https://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/overeem-timeline.jpg

    He didn't boil his way down.... He ballooned up in weight if anything!
     
  7. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Fedor would have ragdolled him. We know Hunt wouldn't have done, nor Kharitonov, nor Werdum. Filipovic would have been an interesting one. Nog probably beats him as well.

    But look over at UFC at this point. Sylvia and Arlovski get hammered by him.
     
  8. UnleashtheFURY

    UnleashtheFURY D'oh! Full Member

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    That version of Overeem? No way... I'd confidently pick Sylvia and Arlovski to brutally KO him. Rizzo certainly does a number on him, Couture beats him into submission like Arona did.
     
  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Couture I can agree with, he was definitely worth the hype imo. He was brilliant in his prime.

    Sylvia, Arlovski and Rizzo though I don't see having much success against Reem. Statistically 1 in 3 probably knocks him out but I think in each individual match he's the better fighter.

    I don't think he transitioned into a better fighter post 2010, I think he trained to the wrong weight and that goes hand in hand with his conditioning issues.

    He's always there to be clipped and he's always gonna fade late on, but I feel as a HW he takes a better shot and fades later on.

    I mean look Athens guys he's beaten: Kharitonov, Belfort, Hunt, Werdum, Lesnar, Mir, Struve, Dos Santos, Arlovski. All as a HW. Meanwhile his only losses are to Kharitonov (he's beaten him), Miocic (he's the champ) and then 3 bad losses to Rothwell, Browne and Silva.

    So as a HW he only has 3 damaging losses compared to the amount of losses he suffered as a LHW.
     
  10. UnleashtheFURY

    UnleashtheFURY D'oh! Full Member

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    We're talking about the early-mid Pride version before bulking up though.... The guy who was better suited for LHW. I don't see that version beating Arlovski, Sylvia or Rizzo. He couldn't deal with LHW in Liddell, Arona, Nog and Shogun. Fairly confident that version gets chinned by all 3.
     
  11. UnleashtheFURY

    UnleashtheFURY D'oh! Full Member

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    But the added weight and bulk CLEARLY impacted his career and success at a higher weight. How does a lean Overeem he was maybe walking around at 215-220 do better or as good than the roided monster?
     
  12. UnleashtheFURY

    UnleashtheFURY D'oh! Full Member

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    There were Light-heavyweights who cut more weight even back then, there are certainly ones today. He's always had a heart problem(ability to take punishment and overcoming bad moments) the stamina problems were still there when he moved up to heavyweight. I just don't see how his fighting at 205 negatively impacted his results, it was the more pragmatic move at the time. His results probably would have been even worse had he chosen to fight at HW without juicing.
     
  13. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    People can put on weight easily though. Especially someone with the frame of Overeem. Look at his size now, there's no reason he couldn't have been that size 10 years ago.

    When he bulked up he was much better imo. Losing to Liddell and Rua is no shame, but some of the other fights he lost I think would have been avoided had he carried an extra 20 pound.

    For someone with stamina issues the last thing they should be doing is cutting 20 pounds of muscle.
     
  14. UnleashtheFURY

    UnleashtheFURY D'oh! Full Member

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    Dude he gradually added all of that muscle with weight lifting and
    Not in the way Overeem did lol... That was a gradual process that took years. Did you not see the chart I posted which perfectly captures how Overeem went from a lean bean to a roided hulk in 4-5 years time. He wouldn't have been able to do that over night in those fights. Anyways... I think Overeems a glass cannon regardless of whether it's Light-Heavyweight or Heavyweight, he may have honed his skills and grown in size since, but he's still got the same flaws at the end of the day... - Chin, heart, stamina.
     
  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    He's always going to be a glass cannon, absolutely. I just think the glass is more prone to be shattered at 205 pounds.

    As a HW you could argue him one of the best ever with his win list, at LHW it can't even be seriously debated.