What happen to Leon Spinks?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Dance84, Oct 14, 2020.


  1. Dance84

    Dance84 Unicorn and seastar land Full Member

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    Things went downhill after Ali? What happen? Was it his style? His size? He was aggresive was too small for the division?
     
  2. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    It was drugs, alcohol and Gerrie Coetzee.

    He still had a lot to give and he was in great fights after Ali. I highly recommend the fights with Burnett, DeLeon, Mercado and Lopez. There's other good-uns, but those are the ones I'd recommend watching.

    But yeah, his tendancy to not train as well as he should. Slack off. Get pissed. Do drugs and just overall, not live the lifestyle is why he spiraled away. Spinks could've been an excellent champ at cruiserweight.
     
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  3. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    A lot of things contributed to Leon's demise:
    1) a long amateur career
    2) he turned pro at age 24, which is a bit too late
    3) he accomplished way too much way too fast; he was an Olympic gold medalist and won the heavyweight title when he was just 6-0-1.
    4) he lost heart after his loss to Ali; it made Leon realize he wasn't in a dreamland where he could accomplish anything; unfortunately, Leon could have accomplished just about anything, but he let this loss and the one to Coetzee destroy much of his drive to win
    5) he waited too late to turn to cruiserweight; he had already lost to Ali, Coetzee, and Holmes when he got a clue and decided to fight cruiserweights, and was 30
    6) last, but perhaps most importantly, as George alluded to, Leon dealt with a lot of substance abuse and never stayed with one woman, so he had health issues

    It's sad, cuz in Leon's great performances, notably Ali, Burnett, Mercado, and even the Lopez fight, Leon showed unparalleled stamina, strength, and determination. When Leon fought Ali he sparred 1000 rounds. If he had treated the rest of his career that way, he would have been amazing. This is how I would have liked Leon's career to have played out:
    1) he turns pro in 1974
    2) he challenges Ali for the title in '77 or '78 and still beats him
    3) Ali challenges Leon back, taking this one seriously like he did in reality, except Leon is more experienced and proves he's not a fluke and repeats his win over Ali in a much better, more competitive match.
    4) Spinks takes the unification match w/ Ken Norton, and although it's close, Leon is younger, but experienced enough to outslug Norton. Spinks is now the ONLY champion
    5) Leon defends the title over the next couple of years, beating Tate, Coetzee, Shavers, Weaver, Berbick, Cooney, and Tillis. He and Holmes meet in 1980/ 1981, and Holmes, the superior fighter wins a close, tough fight and is new champ of the world.
    6) Holmes gives Leon a rematch and wins a tough UD.
    7) Spinks declines after this. He defeats a decent contender or two, like Bruno and Smith. He loses more frequently though, to Witherspoon, Pinklon Thomas, Tyson, and so on. After 4 or 5 rocky years, Leon retires decently in 1988 like he really did, except makes no comeback.

    Wishful thinking on my part, but I don't think this idea of mine is very inaccurate, unless of course, Leon is still having his fill of booze, drugs, and women.
     
  4. The Funny Man 7

    The Funny Man 7 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Check out One Punch From the Promised Land. It's a biography of Michael and Leon and that will clear up any mystery. George summed it up pretty neatly earlier, but go through that book for a detailed account of how it all went wrong.

    It wasn't just a fame thing. Leon had substance abuse issues going on from the jump. His sparring partners said he reeked of booze in the Olympic training camp. But it went out of control when he got the title. From the time he got his hand raised until he fought Ali in the rematch, it was one non-stop bender.

    Apparently he was MIA like an hour and a half before the rematch when his wife barged in on Leon naked in a hotel room with another woman. He had been partying, whoring, and up for days. After he lost the title that lifestyle didn't stop.

    Although Leon is often a punchline, it's easy to forget that the guy was a legit world class fighter at one point. He had tons of energy and was shockingly strong for his size. But that lifestyle ruined him. By the time Manny Steward tried to rescue him and put his career back together, he was so dissipated that he was getting beat up by everyone at the Kronk. He was literally getting worked over by amatuers and sub-.500 gate keepers before the Dwight Qawi fight.
     
  5. HolDat

    HolDat Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Terrible defense.
     
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  6. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    @Dance84, Leon had some other awesome fights. Kevin Isaac, Evangelista, and any amateur fights you can find. He was just a whirlwind at his best, with a lot of skill but more limitations. There's also this amateur fight which is great. The opponent is Cuban, but his name escapes me at the minute.
    This content is protected
     
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  7. Kamikaze

    Kamikaze Bye for now! banned Full Member

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    I don’t have much to contribute other then what was written by those who know better but some say Ali lost there first fight on purpose to dissolve a fourth bout with Norton.

    Just some food for thought~
     
  8. Robertus Ramsey

    Robertus Ramsey New Member Full Member

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    Amen Excellent book that!
     
  9. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think I remember his name being Sixto Soria.....not sure why I remember that.
     
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  10. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    In addition to lack of discipline and dedication, I’m not sure if Leon Spinks ever had the makings of a TRUE world beater. With proper devotion and a cleaner life style he might have been a repeat contender or an alphabet holder during the 80s. The colossal upset over Ali for the linear crown was more about timing than talent
     
  11. sweetsci

    sweetsci Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Leon just didn't have what it takes to BE a world champion. He obviously had what it takes to win the title, at least on February 15, 1978. But in the spring and summer of 1978 he went off the rails. It seemed like he was in the news every week for getting caught doing something dumb - drunken driving, drug possession, etc.

    Years later, in an interview with a boxing magazine, I recall him saying himself that he was not prepared for the societal pressure of being heavyweight champion (when that meant something).

    Credit to him for his 1980 & earning a shot at Larry Holmes in 1981.
     
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  12. Dance84

    Dance84 Unicorn and seastar land Full Member

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    Thanks george i liked that fight. Good to see what spinks could do back then. very talented would of loved of seen him fight more
     
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  13. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    While your overall thesis has some merit, your timeline does not. Leon was in the Marines from 1973-76 so he couldn’t turn pro until after that, unless you’re creating an alternate universe where he didn’t enlist. And if he doesn’t do that I’m not sure he survives — came up in one of the worst housing projects in the country, Pruitt-Igoe, in St. Louis, a place that had a reputation like Cabrini Green in Chicago would get years later.

    And he didn’t become a world-class amateur until he was in the Marines. The discipline there and lack of ability to walk away and get in the same kind of trouble allowed him to focus on boxing.

    So I think you have to alter that. Yes, he got a too-soon shot at Ali due to his gold medal, but he didn’t waste the opportunity. But he wasn’t ready for all that came with it.

    He disappeared from his training camp more than once to be dragged back from some bar or other. He had a bunch of trainers/cornermen who all wanted to be the guy and neither Leon nor anyone else tried to sort out the mess. George Benton was one of them. The final arrangement was that three different cornermen would be in Leon’s corner and rotate round by round. Benton left by the sixth round. It was complete chaos. Leon was, it is said, actually crying in the corner as his charges were arguing instead of tending to him. There was no game plan because there wasn’t a head cook to tell the others what their roles were.

    In the first fight, he employed brilliant and unorthodox strategy — you can see when Ali rope-a-dopes that instead of wailing away mindlessly and wasting energy, he would pound on Ali’s arms and the top of his shoulders. That pounding took a toll and Ali was unable to turn on his speed and combinations late in the fight when he tried.

    There was some nobility in Spinks — instead of fighting Norton in his first defense, he allowed himself to be stripped of a belt because he believed Ali deserved a rematch.

    But he was a one-hit wonder. And it was a marvelous moment the night he won it all. I don’t really think he could have become a great heavy because his habits and lack of dedication were always going to make him inconsistent.
     
  14. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Good post Saintpat. Unfortunately my timeline is off, for alas, I did not know Leon was in the marines. In that light I have Leon challenging Holmes for the title in '79 and almost winning, but just not pulling it off. He might win a title in the early 80s, beat a few of the guys I mentioned before losing the title to someone (Larry perhaps) and then going down the prolonged rocky period leading up to his retirement.
     
  15. steve1990

    steve1990 Active Member Full Member

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    His drinking and drug problems and he fought at a weight class that he really didn't belong at. Should have been a career cruiserweight.