What Happened to Armstrong against Zivic ?

It was a perfect storm of factors.

Armstrong's ridiculous schedule, combined with his style, was starting to catch up with him.

Zivic had suffered from poor management for most of his career, and was much better than his record suggested.

Also Armstrong tried to out Zivic Zivic in terms of dirty fighting, and lost that game!

If he had fought a clean fight, then the referee would have protected him.

 

In the book “In this Corner “ Armstrong said that all Zivic did was hold and hit him. In the Radio broadcast I heard on YouTube it sounds like Zivic did a pretty good job of using uppercuts. (If that helps any)

 

Zivic tko'ed Armstrong in 12 rds in the rematch 3 months later.
Armstrong 28 years old. 112-14-7
Zivic 27 years old. 103-24-6

Zivic is underrated.

1941-01-17 : Henry Armstrong 140½ lbs lost to Fritzie Zivic 145¾ lbs by TKO at 0:52 in round 12 of 15

• Location: Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, USA
• Referee: Arthur Donovan

• World Welterweight Title

"A great fighter went over the fistic horizon last night in Madison Square Garden. Henry Armstrong, the gallant, tornadic Hammering Hank of another day whose little fists pounded him to the distinction of being the ring's only exponent to hold three titles at the same time, was knocked out in 12 rounds of savage fighting....

"The end came after 52 seconds of the 12th round.... Referee Arthur Donovan mercifully ended the battle after twice having entreated the gallant Armstrong to retire, only to have his pleas rejected. Once, after the tenth round, Donovan solemnly notified Armstrong that he would give him on more round. Armstrong retorted to the warning with a flash of the fighting demon of old. It was as if he wanted to demonstrate that, though battered and bruised, cut and bleeding, his eyes puffed and cut, he still had plenty of fight left.

"Through the 11th round he pulled the crowd to its feet in as glorious a rally as this observer has seen in 25 years of attendances at these ring battles. The former champion hammered Zivic all over the ring. He pelted the title-holder with lefts and rights to the body, plied him with savage thrusts of the left and wicked right smashes to the face and head. Repeatedly Armstrong grazed the jaw with desperate rights, blows with which he hoped to turn the tide of crushing defeat that was engulfing him. For two minutes Armstrong went beserk. He was a fighting maniac in the one flash he gave of the Hammering Henry of old.

"It was glorious, spectacular while it lasted. Zivic was too busy trying to defend himself in this unlooked-for charge to launch a counterfire. But then Zivic stepped to the attack and through the last minute of the 11th round he hammered and punched Armstrong mercilessly with short, choppy but stinging lefts and rights that ripped open old wounds and started a flow of blood.

[Examined by the doctor between rounds Armstrong was allowed to continue and he] "started the 12th as if to press his dynamic recovery. But he had given all his strength in that 11th round stand. Hammering Henry shuffled into a barrage of straight lefts, a criss-cross fire of lefts and rights, punishing, cutting blows. He tried a roundhouse right for the jaw, missed and slipped. Up he came, facing his foe, charging recklessly, only to be pelted by Zivic's shower of blows. When Donovan realized what Armstrong must have known but would not admit, the referee stepped between the fighters and waved an end to the battle, and Armstrong's career."

James P. Douglas, New York Times

Armstrong announced his retirement (temporary) after the bout.

 

More on Zivic and his "Question-able" skills
Losing the world welterweight title against Fred "Red" Cochran, July, 1941
Zivic lost his world welterweight title in a fifteen-round decision against Red Cochran before 10,000 fans on July 29, 1941 at Rupert Stadium in Newark, NJ. Cochrane effectively threw left hooks to the belly against the straight rights of Zivic. He butted Zivic with his head, when Zivic attempted to illegally put an arm around his neck to hammer him with his left. In a back-alley brawl type of fighting, Cochrane threw a left hook into Zivic's groin after he claimed to have been continuously thumbed in the eye by Zivic, though the resulting penalty call gave the round to Zivic. Zivic's late comeback attempt in the final five rounds was not overlooked by the press, as many considered him obtaining more points in each of the last five rounds.[19] The referee gave Cochran seven rounds, four to Zivic, and four even, with the single judge scoring the same. The United Press, however gave six rounds to each boxer, with three as draws. Most believed Cochrane's ability to force the fighting throughout and land more telling blows made him deserve the close decision.[20]

Immediately after his loss of the title, on September 15, 1941, Zivic achieved a fifth-round knockout of Milt Aaron in the feature match at Pittsburgh's Forbes Field, before an appreciative hometown audience of 24,972 fans. As Aron was trying to exit a corner of the ring, Zivic knocked him out with a bolo punch, a crossing right hand smash to the jaw, 1:58 into the fifth.[21] Typical of Zivic's rough style of boxing, he excelled in the infighting in the first four rounds.[22] Zivic had previously lost to Aron in an eight-round knockout on December 27, 1939. In the exciting match, Aron was down three times in round two, but Aron put Zivic down once in the seventh. After taking a beating in the eighth, Zivic uncorked a terrific right that caught Zivic squarely on his jaw putting him down, then sealed the deal after he got up with a left and right on the chin for the count.

 

The writing is what I love. Sportswriters can't do that today.

 

I was reading something the other day in which Armstrong was quoted as saying that Zivic had a style that worked really well against Armstrong's style.

 

Great info.

 

There is a Facebook page called "Pittsburgh Boxing: A Pictorial History" that, on a daily basis, provided a wealth of information. Old newspaper articles and so on. I think it is maintained by Douglas Cavanaugh, though I'm not sure of that. My father was born in Pittsburgh in 1925 so I've heard about Billy Conn and Fritzie Zivic my whole life.

 

This. In an ancient boxing mag that i read in the 60's...an interview with Zivic, he said that he had developed a strategy to use vs Armstrong...to back up constantly, letting Armstrong chase him, countering all the while,...then to abruptly stop his retreat and nail his man coming in. There was an intelligent design behind Zivic's approach.

 

I GOTTA AGREE Zivic all-timer top 20. You might not think so, but all those fights against greats.He even beat Burley once.I like the expression FORGED IN FIRE,he definitely was. Thanks everyone great great knowledge.

 

Awesome, historical post Longhhorn!!

 

Good thread idea - always wondered this myself but never thought to ask the question. Great responses!

 

He doesn't make my top 20.