What Happened to Dempsey in Flynn 1 ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by he grant, Feb 14, 2019.



  1. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    I grew up reading the Dempsey book written by his daughter that had a who chapter called "I should have warmed up" where Dempsey goes into detail that he went in cold, suffered a few flash knockdowns and then his brother Bernie stopped to fight to save him from getting hurt. I've since read accounts that he was caught cold and knocked out cold , on the floor for thirty seconds or more.

    Does we have real info ?
     
  2. SolomonDeedes

    SolomonDeedes Active Member Full Member

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    Every report I've seen says that he was counted out within 20 seconds of the opening bell. In which case it would be understandable if his recollections were a little fuzzy.
     
  3. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    I've always though of Dempsey fr the most part as a straight shooter .. there is a big difference if he was flattened cold or caught early and suffered a few quick knockdowns like Witherspoon vs Smith or Barkley vs Benn ... if he covered it up it is a disappointment .
     
  4. Russell

    Russell VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I've always heard it that he was simply caught cold and put down and out within the first minute of the first round. I never thought of it as a fishy fight, more or a fluke'ish kind of result perhaps.
     
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  5. The Long Count

    The Long Count Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Monte cox believes the fight was a fix. He states admitting to a fix was a big no no and could ruin a career. Not sure I believe him but their is an interesting article on the net somewhere about it.
     
  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Dempsey's wife testified under oath that he took a dive in that fight.

    The more that I have looked into it, the more I have leaned in the direction of it being on the level.

    The truth is that either explanation is plausible!
     
  7. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Maxine said he threw the fight.

    And then she fell down and hurt her jaw.
     
  8. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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  9. KasimirKid

    KasimirKid Well-Known Member Full Member

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    It is easy to claim something is a fix. Example: "Hey, did you know that the first Louis-Schmeling fight was a fix?" But it's another thing to make a good case for a fix by understanding the circumstances of the fight and context of how it would have come down. Here, we have no proof at all. The newspaper article linked above says Dempsey got nailed. Period. If a guy is going to throw a fight at least he would try to stick around long enough to make it believable. I don't know what it is about the human species that makes people want to believe in ridiculous conspiracy theories without any real foundation. To me, boxing fans seem particularly susceptible to such theories. Just sayin.'
     
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  10. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think he basically caught Dempsey cold with a monster punch.
     
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  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Dempsey's wife testifying in court that he took a dive if fairly compelling evidence.

    Like I say, I have tended to move away from the dive idea, but I think that it has to at least be taken seriously.
    The safest way to throw a fight is basically to go down in the first round.

    The scenario that unfolded is consistent with the fight being thrown, but it is also consistent with an inexperienced fighter stepping up in competition getting nailed.
     
  12. louis54

    louis54 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Jim flyn n himself said dempsey threw it
     
  13. Chuck1052

    Chuck1052 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    There are contemporary fight reports about the first bout between Fireman Jim Flynn and Jack Dempsey in Salt Lake City newspapers that can be found on the Newspapers.com website. Flynn knocked out Dempsey twenty-five seconds in the first round. After being hit with the knockout blow or blows, Dempsey fell forward to the canvas with his face landing on his boxing gloves and was counted out. It was estimated that Dempsey was "out" around thirty seconds.

    Note- While reading such reports, I got the impression that the knockout was legitimate. Dempsey WAS hit with at least one hard punch to the jaw and WAS noticeably knocked out. There was only one knockdown and it appears that Dempsey was counted out. Because of a last-minute squabble, there was an unplanned intermission of about forty-five minutes before the Flynn-Dempsey bout finally took place.

    At the time of his first bout with Flynn, Dempsey was managed by A. J. Auerbach, a Salt Lake City businessman. Yet Auerbach was never mentioned in any of Dempsey's autobiographies and a number of Dempsey biographies. But Dempsey did show up for a number of Herman Auerbach's bouts in Los Angeles with some reports mentioning that Herman's father, A. J., once managed Dempsey. Herman went on to have an interesting boxing career as a club fighter. When Herman dropped dead on a street in Los Angeles during the 1970s, he was mistakenly identified as Dave Shade in newspaper reports across the United States. As it turned out, Dave was alive and well while living in the Daytona Beach area in Florida at the time.

    - Chuck Johnston
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
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  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Never read that, where can I find that quote?