What Happened to Dempsey in Flynn 1 ?

Why did Dempsey duck Greb? Greb beat some of Dempsey's competition, some would argue by a wider margin!

Face it, Dempsey has two big ducks. Wills and Greb. The best fighter he fought was Tunney and it wasn't close. The second best fighter Dempsey fought was Sharkey, and he was losing that one until he fouled him. As I correctly said there is a lot of controversy around several of his matches.

 

I don't want to have another endless round of your heaping crap on a fighter you have decided you hate.
Go peddle your vitriol to someone who is interested in your toxic opinions.

 

Dempsey's hands were wrapped by Jimmy Deforest in the presence of Willard's cornerman.
Both fighters inspected each others hands in the ring prior to gloving up.The gloves were put on under supervision.They were 5 ounce gloves. The most recent reference I have for this is ,"The Gods Of War," by Springs Toledo
"When the count reached 9 Dempsey,whose feet never left the ring's apron was back in the ring." " Jack Dempsey." Randy Roberts.

 

I don't care about his hands being wrapped. You can still put something in a glove. I'm not saying something was in the gloves or not. Odd Dempsey bet on himself for a first round knockout.

Dempsey ran out of the ring! Who says he did not? They had to get him back into it to finish the fight. I'm not sure what Randy Roberts is talking about . Why did Dempsey run out of the ring like he did?

 

Try answering my questions. Oh, wait you can't because they would reveal I'm correct. Obviously, you are interested in these topics, as you keep replying back! I have no hate for Dempsey, only the crap and spin machine that are you posts.

 

Wrong again!
1. The gloves were put on under supervision.
2.Dempsey didn't bet on the fight, Kearns did without Dempsey's knowledge and its mentioned in both Dempsey autobiographies,A Flame of Pure Fire by Roger Kahn, and Randy Roberts book!

Fact Dempsey's feet never left the ring apron in the Firpo fight.

I'd say you're not sure what YOU are talking about!lol
Now do you want to discuss 59 years old Jem Mace ?lol

 

Well put.

 

Get out!!!! Fanboy's like Roger Khan should not be viewed as fair and balanced on Dempsey! His book was a lovefest, pain and simple.

Randy Roberts, oh right, he was the author who said Jack Johnson quit vs. Klondike. Do you like him now?! Bawhahahaha

Dempsey was knocked out of the ring and helped back in it, as stated. By rules this is a DQ.

Go eff yourself already... Aren't you tired of me pounding you with facts by now?

Back to the loaded gloves vs Willard, of which I'm not sure if it happened.

1 ) According to Kearns this is how he loaded Dempsey’s gloves, “I quickly wound on Dempsey’s bandages under Moynahan’s vigilant inspection. After I finished with the wrappings I turned to Jimmy DeForest, my trainer, and pointed to the water bucket. “Give me that sponge well soaked with water”, I ordered, “I want to keep the kids hands cool.” The sponge, dripping with water, made a sloshing sound as I clamped it to the bandages on Dempsey’s hands. In a moment they were drenched through. “Now the talcum powder,” I directed DeForest, and he passed me the innocent looking can. I sprinkled the contents heavily over the bandages.

Do you deny Kearns said this? A simple yes or no will do, and no reply just means you know I'm correct again!!!


2 ) In the July 3, 1979 Los Angeles Times, Joe Stone a boxing historian, and former referee states that he is convinced that Dempsey carried an iron bolt in his left hand. “There were always several aspects about that fight that bothered me,” said Stone. But it wasn’t until he was studying still photos of the fight that he began to believe that Dempsey held a load in his left glove, due to a dark cigar shaped object that can be seen on the ring canvas.

Joe Stone says he’s convinced for several reasons, but mostly because of a peculiar incident than can be seen on the film during and after Willard’s seventh knockdown in round one. While Willard sits dazed in a neutral corner, a cigar-shaped dark object can be seen on the ring apron next to his left knee.

1979 LA Times piece. Is it a cigar? Or is it a bolt?

“Now watch this,” Stone says, viewing the film of the fight. “Look at this guy.” He points to a man walking from the area of Dempsey’s corner to the spot where Willard had just arisen. While Dempsey’s handlers are jumping up and down for joy in the ring, this fellow climbs into the ring at the neutral corner. He stands directly over the dark object on the apron. A fan stands covering the view of the man’s feet. But after a few seconds, he walks away, the fan sits down and the dark object is gone.

“See that?” Stone said. “I think he kicked it off the apron, “I think Dempsey had a load in his glove.”

Stone says there are five very peculiar things about this fight. These are:

1. First of all if you assume the dark object is a load that explains why Dempsey doesn’t knock Willard down in the second and third rounds, a guy who is almost out on his feet.
   
   
   
2. It’s the right side of Willard’s face that is so badly damaged and cut up.
   
   
   
3. Years later Kearns said he got 10-1 odds from a bookie that Dempsey would knock out Willard in the first round (See SI article). He said they bet $10,000. Willard had never been knocked off his feet, doesn’t that sound like an insane bet? He would have to be damn certain of a first round knockout to make such a bet.
   
   
   
4. The Dempsey cornerman entering the ring at the end of round one is very strange. Stone said “I’ve been around boxing for 25 years and I never saw a cornerman enter the ring from a neutral corner.”
   
   
   
5. Finally, it’s difficult to imagine Willard going down seven times in the first round. Sure he was 37, but the man could take a punch. He’d never been knocked off his feet.

3 ) Are you going to tell me why Dempsey ran out of the ring so quickly vs Willard? If he though the fight just ended, he should be celebrating, not running as if he was guilty of something.

 

Jess Willard was far too slow to match up well with Jack Dempsey. That factor was just as significant as Dempsey's punching power, maybe even more. As a result, Dempsey was landing punches at will while Willard had a great deal of trouble to land with a meaningful punch. History shows that Dempsey had plenty of punching power, so I don't think that he needed to have "loaded" gloves to give Willard such a beating. Moreover, there isn't any solid evidence that Dempsey had "loaded" gloves in the bout. Jack Kearns seemed to be less than truthful at times.

- Chuck Johnston

 

Do you want to come clean, be honest for once ,and admit you haven't read Kahn's book? You haven't have you !
Where can I find Joe Stone? He isn't in any referees index nor is he in the index as a boxing historian? Why is that do you think ?
Kearns did not wrap Dempsey's hands .I repeat Kearns did not wrap Dempsey's hands.
1.Jimmy Deforest did and he did it in the presence of Willard's manager and Nat Fleischer
2.The "plaster of paris" theory was disproved by Boxing Illustrated and SI , Cleveland Williams hands were wrapped ,dusted with hardening plaster of paris powder and sprinkled with water,after a suitable time Williams was instructed to hit the heavy bag the powder disintegrated.Quite honestly I thought everyone knew about this?
3. Where can I find information on Joe Stone, I have never heard of him!
He is a boxing historian? Which books did he write on the subject?Which fights did he referee?
4.The major damage to Willard's face was on the right side? Dempsey's best punch was his left hook?
5.Dempsey broke the jaw of Big Ben Wray ,7.'2" 300lbs ,in2 places, with one left hook.
Your hysterical outburst is amusing but all it does is make you look ridiculous ,nobody minds ,we are used to it now!lol

ps The other week you were saying what a good author Roberts was,changed your mind?lol

Here are some links for you to digest ,if you can get someone to read them to you.

boxing.wikia.com/wiki/Jess_Willard

• Cached

Jack Kearns, who claimed that he had placed a bet on the fight and coated Dempsey's hand wraps with plaster of paris; however, Kearns made this statement after he and Dempsey had had a falling out. In 1964 heavyweight contender Cleveland Williams tested the theory by coating his bandages with plaster of paris, toasting them for 35 minutes, and punching the heavy bag five times. The plaster of ...

 

"Plaster of Paris brought Dempsey back into the spotlight in 1964. There he was, 45 years after winning the heavyweight title, on the cover of Sports Illustrated and once more an item in the New York dailies, almost as if were the 1920s all over again. In the January 13, 1964, issue of SI, Jack Kearns, long on the outs with Dempsey, “confessed” that he had used Plaster of Paris on the handwraps Dempsey wore for the Willard fight. Dempsey hotly denied the claims and sent his lawyers after Sports Illustrated. Kearns was already dead by the time the article, an excerpt from his forthcoming biography The Million Dollar Gate, had appeared. Dempsey went on to score a TKO against Sports Illustrated, winning an out-of-court settlement and a printed apology from the magazine.

There were plenty of other refutations of the Kearns tall-tale. Nat Fleischer, in his autobiography 50 Years at Ringside, effectively dispels the Plaster of Paris myth. “I was at the fight,” wrote Fleischer. “I saw Jimmy Deforest, Dempsey’s trainer tape Jack’s hands. I watched every move of the men in Jack’s quarters. I think I can clear the atmosphere once and for all with an accurate version of what happened. Jack Dempsey had no loaded gloves, and no plaster of Paris over his bandages. I watched the proceedings and the only person who had anything to do with the taping of Jacks’ hands was Deforest.Kearns had nothing to do with it, so his plaster of Paris story is simply not true.” ps Dempsey's hand wraps were auctioned at Christies

JACK DEMPSEY HAND WRAPS
Following Jack Dempsey's defeat of Jess Willard for the Heavyweight Championship of the World in 1919, a charge arose that Dempsey used "loaded gloves" in the fight. It was speculated that Dempsey had soaked the gloves in plaster of paris or another hardening substance to result in Willard being hit with what would feel like a rock. None of the charges were substantiated or proven. Jack Robinson, who apparently was involved with Dempsey at the fight, sent the original bandage handwraps to Jack Dempsey by registered mail with a letter explaining that he had possessed the wraps since the fight and had turned down a three hundred dollar offer for them. He enclosed the wraps and requested that Dempsey send him an autographed photo. Mr. Robinson further states, These bandages have never been washed, and nothing removed from them accept (sic) pieces of bandage tape, and they never contained any trace of plaster of paris or any loaded substance. The letter is on the stationary of the Methodist weekly, "The Family Affair" of which Mr. Robinson was both the editor and publisher. The lot also includes a letter of authenticity from Mrs. Jack Dempsey."
Lot 557
JACK DEMPSEY HAND WRAPS


Price realised
USD 2,185

Estimate USD 2,000 - USD 3,000

 

c

Kearns was as big a liar as you and about as honourable!lol

Congratulations on turning another decent thread into yet another hate fest from you.

 

The problem with this theory is that the object isn't visible at Willard's knee when Dempsey walks away, leaving him slumped in the corner. The camera follows Dempsey back to his own corner, then the next time we see Willard, there it is.

All in all it seems more likely that the "cigar-shaped object" was a cigar.

 

Don't want to get into this, and I know the point you're making, but the intent of why they were doing something is irrelevant and wouldn't be admissible. The fact is, by pushing him "off them" as you say, and they could claim that, the result is still, Dempsey got help getting back into the ring. They're intentions could've been good, and only that, but nobody could prove it one way or the other... and we're left with Dempsey getting assistance back into the ring. Now, as somebody has stated, that might've been the best outcome considering all that was at stake and that Dempsey really wasn't finished. I could agree with that as well

 

What we have here is a moron taking yet another thread and steering it away from the threads subject to dump some hate on it. The Firpo and Willard fights are not the subject of this thread the first Jim Flynn fight is!