What Happened to Dempsey in Flynn 1 ?

You're correct!! That has occurred yet again lol

 

on Flynn, I found a supposed quote.

"I hit him with a one-two. But just put it down that I didn't exactly knock Dempsey out. He just forgot to duck."

I wouldn't put too much weight on this. It appears to me to be sarcasm or a joke playing on Dempsey's famous line after the first Tunney fight.
And of course this is assuming the reporter got the words right, which is a problem with relying on quotes.

I think Dempsey was knocked out. Why else write about four knockdowns which didn't occur?

The one-two bit explains why some think it was a right and some a left.

I am a bit hesitant to say anything about the Willard fight on this thread, but I have a question about it, if no conclusion. Why did Dempsey leave the ring so quickly after the first round, with Willard apparently still on the floor? In the third, he crossed the ring to talk to Willard, staying in the ring for some time.

 

"Ollie Pecord started counting.Reaching ten,he counted Jess out.The crowd went wild :everyone was screaming.Doc was convinced that he'd just won his bet despite Jimmy De Forest's telling him to wait a minute.Willard's being counted out didn't correspond with De Forest's stop watch."There seems to be something wrong with the bell."
"Shut up" For $10,000 who the hell cares if there's something wrong with the bell! Pecord! Pecord! Raise Jack's hand! Raise his hand!He's the new champ!

And Ollie raised my hand grinning,I was stunned.
Doc Rushed up to me ,threw his arms tightly around me and told me to get out of the ring.Jimmy told me to move faster.
We were by the press seats when Jimmy half turned and saw that the ring was in a state of chaos.Doc,half in,half out of the ropes was frantically waving me back.Ollie had told him that the fight wasn't over and Warren Barbour the official timekeeper screamed over the confusion that if I didn't get back into the ring I'd be disqualified.The bell rope had ,as he called it," fouled."No one heard the bell Willard had been down for only seven seconds"."Dempsey" by Jack Dempsey
It appears Kearns wanted Dempsey crowned quickly to pre-empt any controversy about the count and getting him to leave the ring after having his hand raised would help to cement the decision and forestall any arguments as to the legitimacy of the ko.Kearns' rash actions nearly lost Dempsey the title.

 

Thank you. Your explanation makes sense.

 

It's my take on it anyway.

 

Dempsey had no intentions of ducking....what Flynn and Auerbach said convinced me dempsey did an unconvincing flop ala liston...i used to think he got caught cold but not anymore imo

 

The rematch where dempsey just annihilated flynn is more in line with what should have occurred in the first place

 

I said the Flynn fight just one of the fights provides smoke over Dempsey's career ( BS fix allegation ) and it branched off from there. KO1 for Flynn one Dempsey. End of.

If you disagree that many of Dempsey's top fights had controversy around them, or that he did NOT duck Wills and Greb we can start a thread and I can further educate you.

 

You get it.

Willard suffered a lot of damage. Has anyone taken that amount of damage in such a short period of time in the past 100 years? Broken Jaw, fractures, and broken ribs? Anyone? McVey, KuRuPT?

I would not rule out that Dempsey had something in his gloves like a spike or bolt or had something poured over his wraps after they were inspected ( Kearns says was doctored ) that did the damage.

Willard found a bolt in the ring and kept it for life.

"I've been trying for almost 45 years to get the story printed, but nobody would believe me," Willard said. "They thought it was just a sore loser complaining. I'm glad Kearns has finally admitted it. My jaw is still caved in from the beating that fellow gave me with cement on his hands." - Jess Willard.

 

How would a cigar get into the ring? I never heard, read, or seen one throw in there during a fight. The film isn't clear enough, and by the way who has seen all 180 seconds of the first three rounds of action?

I think Dempsey wins with our without loaded gloves. Willard was old and slow ,with no defense at all.

 

I think the degree of damage is under question, isn't it. Do we have these damage reports from a hospital, or is this hype from reporters? I thought I read once that Willard drove home to Kansas himself right after the bout. Perhaps someone on this board knows more about that.

That spike or bolt stuff sounds extremely unlikely.

A sore loser complaining is nothing actually unusual in sports--witness deflategate with Tom Brady. Footballs losing air pressure can be easily explained by cold and wet weather (and has been multiple times in experimental tests) but a lot of people, including NFL bigwigs, ran with that one.

 

I notice that the Johnson-Jeffries and Willard-Johnson fights are at a slow pace with relatively few punches thrown for long periods. Dempsey launched an all-out attack, so Willard might have been hit more hard shots in one round by Dempsey than he was in 26 by Johnson, and certainly in three, because Jess sopped up a lot of punishment in the third round.

But we are off topic, and perhaps there should be a separate thread for the Willard fight.

 

You recognized yourself from my description then? lol

Tell you what ,you start whatever threads you want, on whatever subjects that interest you,perhaps then you won't have to compulsively derail and **** up others threads with your venomous vomit?
How does that sound ?

 

It's as valid an opinion as Dempsey being legitimately ko'd .I doubt any of us will ever know the truth of the matter.
I just wish the posts could have been confined to the subject of the thread ,but when you have a compulsive hater amongst you, his toxic posts contaminate everything.

1.We know the cement conspiracy has been disproved, it doesn't work .
2. Willard was in no condition to go looking for a foreign object on the canvas, after the fight he could hardly walk or see!
3.Sitting slumped in his corner less than fully conscious ,do you think Willard suddenly thought," my injuries are consistent with a foreign object having been concealed in a glove,I better go and find it!"lol
4.There is no footage of Willard getting up from his stool and scouring the ring canvas for any foreign object.
5.After the fight both men shook hands and Jess with some difficulty, left the ring and groped his way out of the arena
6.. If Dempsey had concealed something in his 5 ounce gloves, wouldn't he have chosen something smaller than a railroad spike or long bolt?
7.. Having inflicted the damage to cause the fight to be stopped, why wouldn't Dempsey just have kept the object in his hand until he was back in his own corner and then allowed a second to quietly relieve him of it? Why would he drop it onto the ring canvas in full view of thousands of onlookers?
8.Willard veers between cement loaded gloves and a bolt/spike being held in the hand.After the first left hook KD big Jess didn't know which way was up!
9.Willard stated that when he fought Jack Johnson in April in Havana, and I quote," it was hotter than hell in there". You totally discounted this because it did not suit yourr hate Johnson agenda,now ,because accepting what Willard said suits your hate Dempsey narrative you want to believe him?
10.Willard's injuries have been exaggerated over the years.
It's all too ridiculous for words!

 

1 ) So you saying Kearns lied about hardening the gloves, and Willard who took the punches is also lying? Odd, Kearns bets on a 1st round stoppage.

2 and 3 ) Willard found a metal bolt, and kept it, as stated! The corroborates what the historian says he sees on film.

4 ) Yes, there is no footage. Many of Dempsey's fights are edited as I told you.

5 ) And your point is what? they shake with their right hand, and if Dempsey had something in his left, he surely dropped it before shaking hands after the fight was over

6 ) One could easily hide a 3-4" metal object in a glove. The width of a glove is at least 6".

7 ) It could have fallen out. The first punch did the most damage, finishing Willard after round two was a sure thing.

8 ) I agree after the first punch that landed flush ( left hook ) Willard was done for. Willard could take a punch.

9 ) You dumb man, look up the weather in Havana in April. It was not 100 degrees. Likely the low to mid 80's is closer to the truth.

10 ) Are you saying Willard didn't have a fractured jaw and ribs?


PS: I created a new thread on Dempsey, which posters can state their opinion. Do yourself a favor and stay out of it.