Hearns fought the relatively unknown Dennis Andries to win his first 175 title when Marvin Johnson was the "other" champion. What do you think of that choice? Jones going up against any remotely 1/4 decent heavyweight was an achievement in itself. lol@ him ducking "everyone".
I think Andries turned out to be a very good champion, I think he was champion 3 times at 175, but I cannot be sure of that by memory. He beat Czyz in 1988 and Harding later and even a tough guy named Crawford Ashley who was 6'3". Sibson in a defense, and JB Williamson. And, Tommy never had a guy go down in weight and had him weakened to win a title. This is not comparable. I am surprised you think this is similar or even close to Lalonde and making him lose to 168 and fighting for a title there when neither was ranked and then Lalonde being weakened fighting for the 175 pound title. And they talked about Hearns moving up and fighting Pops and picked him to win if he counterpunched. Stewart beat him 2 months after Hearns beat Andries. It was not thought of as a big deal, but that was bigger fight and would take more promotion. Hearns wanted the title in the interim as Ray fought Hagler in April. Hearns vs. Andries was March 7, 1987.. A month before. And Jones was known as a ducking champand now he fought everyone. That is a bunch of nonsense. He ducked any top guy he could in those years. Nunn even. Hopkins when he got better . Eubank, Benn, Jirov, Darius. I knew he would beat Ruiz. Jones was never hit so Ruiz would not hit him, and he did not have one punch power so it would be the same fight as any of the guys he fought at 175 and it was.
Hagler wasnt near his prime in 1987. why do you insist in keeping up this subtle yet gross deception? Is it an effort to make Ray Leonard seem more accomplished? You're trying to spin Put a 1992 Roy Jones in with a 1987 Hagler and Roy would win - EASILY! Nu7nn would beat him. Norris would beat him. Terry Norris likewise would whip ANY version of benitez that existed 1987 Ray Leonard HDH vs same year Micheal Nunn - no contest - Nunn easily for you to say Roy Jones wanted no challenges after he cruises thru three divisions and DOMINATES them causes me to wonder about you You want to talk about wanting no challenges, I didnt see Leonard make defenses of any title above 147. He sure didnt defend against Nunn or even Tate or even washed up Roldan!. Not ONE defense! why do you write such garbage???
I was talking about your comment on Jones vs Ruiz not Lalonde. You are banging on about Jones fighting Ruiz instead of Lewis to get the heavyweight title but Tommy took on Andries who was not the best 175'er to get the light heavyweight title. It might not be proportionate but the fact of the matter is Tommy fought a guy that was not the best in the division to get the strap. Who said Jones fought everyone? How could you possibly fight everyone over a career that spanned as long as his at the top? You can point to missed fights over any lengthy career and pluck names out of the air as you have. You commented that Jones "ducked everyone" which is a joke really. Now you say people are claiming "he fought everyone".
Amir Khan reminds me somewhat of a Terry Norris minus the power- fast great boxing skills but a GLASS CHIN. Norris would never beat a prime Leonard-sure Norris had the skills to box with Leonard but the DURABILITY wasnt there. NOBODY ever cold clocked Leonard and Norris got clocked by Jackson and Brown And while champion nobody ever dropped Leonard. Hell Leonard fought one of the greatest welterweight punchers of all time and didnt get dropped . Norris fought one of the greatest jr.middleweight punchers and got SMASHED.
Benitez. Duran. Hagler. Hearns. Legends. And Leonard beat them ALL. Put the first losses on two of them by STOPPAGE . And im not a Leonard fan.When he was in the limelight he was a jerk and very egotistical. Only when he got older he chilled out and came down to earth. But id never deny the man could fight and was an alltime great .
Jones was handpicking and avoiding major contests which would have proven his leadership at 168. Nigel Benn and Eubank, not wanting to fight those guys or even McClelland who was a bit below him in weight, but he would not have fought him. That is just at 168. Not to mention later fights at 175. And if you are going to make comments about what I said then read what I responding to. "redrooster said: ↑ I just feel that RoyJones is so much more accomplished, ducking no one" this is what I was responding to. This fellow saying ducking no one. And he ducked many and his reputation was similar to Floyd later of handpicking and avoiding tough challenges. I don't think Andries compared to Marvin Johnson the way Ruiz compared to Lennox at all. As a matter of fact in retrospect, which is not valid in 1987- I would have picked Andries to beat Johnsonthat year. You can never say the same for Ruiz vs. Lewis. Some people thought Czyz was better than Andries, and then in 1988 Andries beats him with Bobby making another excuse for losing. And the comment means everyone in comparison to him elite or at the top. Jones never really did that until he started losing a little, then he took on more challenges. Ironically.
That's a cop out and you've admitted as much in the first sentence. Should be one helluva debate between you and the almighty This content is protected .
Where did you get 1987 Hagler was prime? I would not say that in any logical sense. If I did, then I mistyped. Yet I don't think it was washed up which hurt Hagler, he was inactive for the 2 years since the Hearns fight and only fought Mugabi in that time, and was rusty and he did not look good. Then he takes off another year. The Hearns fight gave Hagler the notice he always wanted and to me it seemed like that was enough. What am I spinning? No a 1992 Roy in with Hagler? Before he fought Hopkins? I saw Roy in 1992 fight Art Serwano in Reno, Nevada. Great performance however he would not be ready for Marvin Hagler then. Norris? I don't think Norris would ever beat Hagler. Eventually Marvin would connect on Terry's chin and he would stop Terry. Terry was never really a middleweight. Nunn in 1987? He fought a guy on the undercard of Hearns/Roldan named Knox, who I think was a Kronk fighter, but I forget. Knox is equivalent to Leonard in 1987? It is hard to say. Nunn might trouble him but Ray would get to the body probably, if you are talking 1987? I don't care if you wonder about me. Good, that is makes the message boards interesting. Wonder all you want. Roy Jones ducked fighters and did not as you say ducked no one. He was a master at that. I give him credit after he lost to Tarver and Johnson he thought, the what the hell I finally lost to now I will take chances. Who is building up Leonard above 147. But he beat Hagler, the best middleweight from 1980-1987. And he beat Hearns, the best 154 pound fighter in my mind in the 1980s. And Ray was the best 147 and he beat Duran, the best lightweight from 72-1979. I think that speaks for itself, regardless of mentioning Jones or Nunn or Norris.
Does Redrooster have a reputation or a lack of one? I remember his name, but I don't recall much about him. You guys on here take sides and recognize names and have measuring contests all the time. I don't really care about names and who has more posts or who has more tantrums. I just respond to posts from whomever and that is that. Yet redrooster was and is who I was responding to since he said the comment "ducked no one". Which to me was not valid. Jones ducked no one? And Marvin Johnson in 1987 was washed up. There was talk in KO magazine in 1986 now that I recall about Hearns vs. Johnson, and Hearns was favored to win. The article saying something like, Hearns could move up and fight Pops and get the lightheavyweight title while Ray fights Marvin, and that is what he did he just beat Andries. I would have loved to have seen Thomas Hearns vs. Marvin Johnson. I think Johnson was beaten by Stewart in May. of 1987 ( 2 months after Hearns beat Andries) after Johnson beat Stewart in Feb. of 1986 . Could it be Feb. 9, 1986 for the first fight? I am not sure and I don't want to look since I rely on memory and Feb. 9 I think was the day. It could have been Feb. 10, 1986. But either one. I remember watching it that date. This is really from memory and I could be wrong, but when I was young I really followed fights that closely. Then in Sept. of 1987, which might be Sept 5, 1987 was Hill vs. Stewart. And Hill later was beaten by Hearns in 1991. So either way Hearns beat Hill, the best 175 pound guy in 1991 who beat Stewart who beat Marvin Johnson-he beat the guy who beat the guy you say was someone he somehow avoided fighting in 1987, which makes your argument that he picked the easy guy like Jones did invalid. Unless Jones went up and beat Lewis a few years later, which he didn't.
What happened with Johnson after Hearns fought Andries is irrelevant. Johnson was considered the man at that time even if not by a long way. A magazine favoring Tommy to beat Johnson means next to nothing. The mag favored Tommy to whup Barkley too. Even less relevant per a Hearns - Johnson match in 86 is Tommy beating a guy 5 years later who beat a guy that beat Johnson. I'm not completely convinced Tommy would have been favored over Marvin but i could be wrong as he was old.
who gives a *** about beating a shell outside of you? so he beat a shell,. you use the same argument over as if it's supposed to impress a second time "HEY MAYBE YOU DIDNT HEAR ME, I SAID HE BEAT HAGLER!!! ONE OF THE GREATEST MIDDLEWEIGHTS! GET IT YET?" these are the type of people who impress watching Ali take apart Cleveland Williams, a contender left over from a previous decade Norris? well let's see. so what if Norris wasnt a middleweight. Ray Leonard wasnt really one either. the issue isnt weight; it's speed If Ray outpointed Hagler in 1987, and Norris left Leonard choking in his dust in THEIR match, why wouldnt Norris do the same to Hagler? or Jones? what's 1992 Roy Jones got to get ready for from Hagler, a shell by 1987? a lack of reflexes? a lack of punch and an inconsistent jab? a porous defense? comes straight in predictable fashion, in slow motion no less, ready to be hit coming in BUT... I can DEFINITELY see your point much more convincingly! "I saw RoyJones in 1992. He wouldnt be ready for Hagler. this I know becuz I SAW him! and even though I know Hagler had his last fight, (but wont acknowledge it) Roy, who was infinitely faster, but wouldnt fight Hopkins for a WHOLE year, wouldnt be ready for him" No, I got it right the first time. You're spinning leonard Nunn? once again you give benefit of the doubt to an absentee champion. Leonard would never dream of facing Mike. Mike, a 6-1 south paw IS NOT GOING TO BE TOUCHED! Leonard in case you hadnt noticed from the Norris fight, isnt exactly a ball of fire chasing down younger, faster, not to mention bigger, opponents
