What happened to the Armstrongs, Fraziers and Qawis?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Rubber Glove Sandwich, Jun 20, 2025 at 10:24 PM.


  1. Rubber Glove Sandwich

    Rubber Glove Sandwich A lot of people have pools Full Member

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    I don't really know if this question makes much sense I'm kinda tired rn. I don't mean that these guys were all of the same greatness but I mean like what happened to the guys who fought like this? Where's the weirdos who charge at you bobbing and weaving? Are they still here and I'm just stupid? If there are actually none left then what happened? Since Qawi retired in 1998, I'll use that as the starting point. I'm looking for guys who fight similarly to Armstrong, Frazier, Qawi, etc who started their career post 1998 and fought at the world level.
     
  2. Rollin

    Rollin Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Style wasn't all that common to begin with, but generally speaking inside game is somewhat dying, high-guard and soviet style won't teach you to fight like that (neither will the upright 1-2-3 euro trainers), and I reckon there is a smaller USA talent pool that could produce such a fighter. Would gladly see some post-2000 examples.
     
  3. Mastrangelo

    Mastrangelo Active Member Full Member

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    Cletus Seldin, aka the Hebrew Hammer, kinda fights like this, He's just not that good at it.
     
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  4. gfghfgh

    gfghfgh New Member Full Member

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    Sam Peter vs Wladi 2 tried it. He maybe only connected 10 punches in total, but watching him bob and weave that 250lbs frame was glorious. Chisora kinda fights like that? Not the greatest specimen representing that style, but the spirit lives on!
     
  5. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Out For Milk Full Member

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    Frazier doesn’t belong in the conversation with Armstrong and Qawi… Toney is more comparable to those guys honestly, Sanchez could get a good weave going, Frazier was very hittable.
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Jesus Christ, can you shut the **** up? This thread isn't about your weirdo heavyweight obsession. Beat it to the 15 threads you've started on this topic rather than trying to hijack yet another.
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think there are a number of answers to this question.

    1 - The style calls for being hit. It's always been known that getting beat up was bad for a person, but now it's undeniable. No more lying to oneself. The amount these guys get clocked in sparring, even, is very high and that's very very unfashionable.

    2 - Unless you're a big puncher like Armstrong, this style is about closing the quality gap with busy pressure. You're in with a more talented, physically superior boxer and you plan to out-work and out-throw (not necessarily out-hit) him to compromise the quality of his work. It is possible to lose early rounds to a fresh opponent while executing this risky style. The change from 15 rounds, to 12 rounds had as a consequence compromising of any long-term strategies, including hiding a punch, feinting strategies and yeah, pressure fighting. You got to get more bang for your buck per-minute to win fights now relative to the scoring your opponent is doing.

    3 - I think the emphasis on aggression has diminished. The pressure-swarmer, he could count on winning close rounds on aggression and I think clean punch-counting is much more prevalent now versus aggression. It's just a feeling but I get a sense that a marginal discouragement to this style is in the success of Floyd Mayweather has had and the move away from aggression and unclean punching as a scoring criteria, just slight, but it might be enough to deter training the style.

    4 - Refereeing. Part of the pressure-swarmer style was working inside once the exchange had broken down or a clinch had been initiated by the defending fighter. This century, fighting in clinches basically hasn't been allowed.

    I think 1 and 4 are the major influences.
     
  8. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Another potential fly in the ointment might be that it's a bit of a lost art, too. Who has the credentials nowadays to properly teach this stuff?
     
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, once it starts to slip it's slipped.
     
  10. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Out For Milk Full Member

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    :lol: Yeah okay fair
     
  11. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Out For Milk Full Member

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    Bob N Weaving… in the most recent times actually the best example I saw of the stuff guys like Sanchez did (who could really weave) and punch off it was what Ramon Cardenas (spelling?) did to drop Inoue, the left hook… he punched off the weave, Inoue dropped his right when he hooked, Ramon hooked out of the weave and caught him cold - uncommon stuff, Sanchez did it a fair bit. I haven’t watched any of Ramon outside a single clip so is he one? I don’t know. A guy who focuses on Bobbing and weaving… I don’t know if that’s ever been the most viable thing as a sole “move” it’s a bit like when people say there’s a “shoulder roll” way of fighting they’re just “notes” in a song like slipping etc I can think of lots of single instances of really good weaving by fighters but it isn’t what you’d associate with them for example Louis used a shoulder roll - I’d say Toney (jokes aside) is the most recent example of a guy who did it well when it called for it - I haven’t watched much modern boxing though and can’t think of anyone after your requested date who did what you’re asking, it might just be a bad idea, people nowadays in most gyms don’t teach you to punch out of it or even usually move your feet… many also make you use your waist.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2025 at 4:12 AM
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  12. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Tyson's the last great heavyweight example, I'd think. He poured/charged in against guys much taller, getting under and around their punches and pounding them.
     
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  13. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Out For Milk Full Member

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    Weirdly I have seen it show up a bit in kickboxing, K1 where the clinch fighting is limited, custom rules where a guy can’t knee sees it show up a lot too the A sides at times request it.
     
  14. Pat M

    Pat M Well-Known Member Full Member

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    2014. Lots of compact punches and inside technique. If you like inside fighting this one is excellent. I haven't seen Takam - Chisora, probably more of the same?
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  15. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Out For Milk Full Member

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    World level amateur I think LOL - I don’t know the fellas name just a random video I found.
     
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