What happened to the typical American fighter?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeqVeRknD5k[/ame]

 

Probably not, since it's not true.

 

Yes, let's watch two of the greatest featherweights of all time, Willie Pep and Sandly Sadler engage in a bit of gentlemanly fisticuffs:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpKHFZ6ixKs[/ame]

Sadler holds and wrestles, Pep runs and potshots, what a disgrace to American boxing. The entire premise of this thread is bogus and that's why you aren't getting the response you want. Boxing hasn't really changed all that much over the 100 or so years that modern boxing has been around. People do the same **** now that they did then.

The only difference is that you're watching these guys more closely, looking for something to pick at.

 

Williams is Good on his way to becoming great. He is NOT what I would call an "American Boxer". He is a swarming boxer/puncher. Just like Pavlik. Your list is a joke because it puts fighters with completely different styles up as "examples" of Pure American Boxers. Anyway, those guys are ALL beasts and "bringing it"

You can't lump all Americans into the same boat just as I would not lump all Europeans into the same boat. Froch and Hatton are not even close to Calzaghe in style.

Americans aren't dominant in boxing because the NBA and NFL are farming the prospects out. Also, boxing has put itself into a pickle. Rich people don't box. The ONLY way to see boxing in America is on the Internet, cable, cable with extra pay channels, and/or with PPV. So guess what? The kids who would box, have ZERO exposure to the sport.

 

Disgrace? Man please I hope you are being sarcastic. Pep is doing exactly what the "Pure American Boxer" is supposed to do. Especially when in with a stronger guy. Move, give angles, and fight on his own terms. Two guys standing flat footed and trading is NOT boxing. (Fun as hell to watch though.)

No changes? Boxing has changed drastically. I hate it when people keep looking at past fighters with their 120-10 records comparing them to guys of today. Those guys will get torched. You see that hold your hands straight out crap? The holding? The barely allowed to get up before the guy is back on top of you? Man if boxers today were doing that crap people would be dropping like flies.

There are a few boxers who transcend eras, but most probably wouldn't. American boxing peaked in the late 70's to 80's. That handily coincides with cable and PPV.

 

Americans used to be the top of the tree, but no-more, simple as that, everyone caught them up and overtook them. They are **** now:smooch

 

Ok, I'll take the bait.

I'll compare these fighters to top level fighters from the mid 80's to mid 90's.

Floyd Mayweather- James Toney/Sweet Pea
Bernard Hopkins- Marvin Hagler
Andre Ward- SRL
Malinaggi- not a top level fighter
Andre Dirrel- not a top level fighter
Shane Mosley- no one to really compare to, perhaps Donald Curry?
Andre Berto- not a top level fighter
Nate Campbell- not a top level fighter

This thread doesn't make sense in the least. You're talking about styles but then mention steroids for Mosley. What?

You also mention Malinaggi as top level. How? Dirrel and Berto are at best high level prospects without a career defining win. Definitely not America's elite fighters (yet).

You also mention Nate Campbell. Once again, elite level? He has one big win, and even at that, Diaz is not exactly a HOF fighter.

You compare all of these fighters to HOF fighters from years past. Really only two fighters (Mayweather and Mosley) on your list are HOF fighters so the comparison really doesn't make any sense at all.

 

It was sarcasm. The point was that it's easy to find nits to pick with just about any fighter, no matter how great, if you are looking for reasons to deride them.

And no, boxing has not changed too much since the rules of the sport were solidified. Obviously someone like Dempsey fought under a different ruleset so the fights looked different. Still, watch Tunney fight Dempsey and you see a thoroughly modern, if orthodox, boxer. Likewise some of the other guys from the 20's to 30's looked a little rough around the edges, but then so do many boxers today. No one would accuse Hatton or Urango of being supreme technicians.

However there were plenty of complete, technical boxers from the 30's on up, in every era. Joe Louis is as complete a boxer as ever lived and makes many current fighters look slow, untalented, and un-coordinated.

 

Ok then, possibly you have misjudged the fighters from the past then.

Ali routinely grabbed the top of fighters heads to intiate a clinch.
Larry Holmes ALWAYS put his left hand into his opponents face and left it there to blind the other fighter and then throw a right hand behind it. I really don't know why he was NEVER warned for this.
Mike Tyson tried to break arms, bite ears, etc.
Jake LaMotta would have brought a knife into the ring if he could have gotten away with it.
Evander Holyfield used to throw three punch combinations that started and ended with a headbutt.
John Ruiz also is known as Huggy Bear.
James Toney is both a defensive wizard and rabbit puncher expert.

This type of fighting has gone on forever. It really is part of the American style, use whatever you can to win a fight. If the referee doesn't take points, then it isn't cheating.

Honestly, we are just now seeing the Euro style clash with the American style on a regular basis because of the Iron Curtain coming down. This makes the American style stand out more because the Euro style is cleaner, sometimes more pleasing to the eye. A lot more outside fighting without the rough stuff. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

The truely most effective style in my opinion is the Mexican/American hybrid. The brawling Mexican style that is then transformed with some American attributes, such as Barrera and Morales.

 

Whitaker has been accused of 'running' in fights by so-called fans (Ramirez, Chavez)

Hagler has been accused of being a dirty fighter (thumb against Roldan, headbutts on Hamsho, low blows against Mugabi)

Leonard was accused of 'running' from Duran and Hagler.