What if '71 Frazier fought '52 Marciano in a 15 rounder?

I was pointing out the difference in stamina and workrate, get all the avaliable rounds of Marciano vs Charles I then compare it to the same rounds, or even the best rounds of Ali vs Frazier I and I bet Marciano threw more punches. Also despite Ali being "near prime" and Charles being "faded" I'd still say Charles was on the whole a more elusive and harder target to hit then Ali who sat on the ropes for half the fight, throwing hard shots and hitting nothing drains you more than hitting a man laying on the ropes. I rewatched the FOTC just a few days ago and even in the mid rounds when Ali was practically doing nothing but lay on the ropes with his hands up, Frazier wasn't all that busy and probably never threw more than 60 punches in any given single round.

 

Love Frazier...have since 1968...but...peak Marciano wins this....a classic brawl...as far as the cut thing goes...The Rock had an ability to come up with the big punch when need be....Walcott 1 in 1952..and the 2nd Charles fight in 1954...I believe that if Marciano feared the fight would be stopped due to cuts...he'd rise to the occasion and pull the fight out...

 

I'll point out a few differences:

1. Ali is throwing more punches, it's easier to punch a man not firing back as Charles wasn't
2. Ali is heavier, it is more tiring fighting a bigger man, Ali also holds and leans on Frazier, this tires you out
3. Rocky is punching tired, ie he keeps throwing punches when tired, those punches aren't nearly as powerful
4. Frazier is holding his power late more so than Rocky
5. Rocky leaves himself really open throwing all those punches, he partly does so because Charles isn't firing back and can't really hurt him

I won't pick a winner for this 1, I'm not really sure, it'd be a hell of a fight but no Rocky doesn't necessarily have better stamina and that's only 1 factor in how a fighter tires let alone talking about Frazier not being able to win a decision because Rocky throws more punches

 

Marciano was known for hitting as har late as he did early. What kind of drugs are you on? The kind that cause delusions?

Ali SLAPPED a lot, Charles punched. Big difference.

 

Ali was sharp and dogged against Frazier. He hit Joe as hard, over and over, as anything Charles hit Rocky with.

Watch the fight. Those weren't all slaps. Those punches kayoed some other top heavyweights, and Joe took them and smiled.

Ezzard Charles was nearing the end of his status as an elite fighter. They aren't in the same class, as far as wins go.

 

Tell me with a straight face that the punches Frazier walked through in the early rounds of FOTC were slaps.

 

good analysis

 

I was responding to your references to work rates .. Frazier was fighting a much younger, bigger, stronger fighter, period. One guy was fighting a 185 pound old guy and the other was fighting a far better fighter and a much bigger man at 215 ... this factors into the equation as does the fact that Ali was on the ropes because Frazier was putting him there ... I'll also say the Ali of Superfight 1 defeats Charles of Marciano 1 fairly easily.

 

Against Walcott he did, not in this fight, he was punching tired and his punches were much weaker, obvious if you actually watched the fights

Oh wait you're the mong who said Rocky had a better left hook than Frazier

 

Dave knows his **** man!...:vonnecunt

 

Charles hit harder, he even ko'd Archie Moore with one shot. Ali was slapper, was known as one till media fell in love with him. Comparing them is joke, Charles even killed an opponent once, which led to him changing style a bit. He started laying back, boxing more. Charles could set t down and punch, better than Ali. Way better, and he tried it with Marciano. He weighed 188 or so, but would beat Frazier, and hit harder than Ali. Boxed better too. He was quiet, if he had had loud mouth, bragged, screamed, and showboated, he would have been hated then, but loved now. He'd be bigger than Sam ("No one ever saw me fight, but I am on many top 10 lists") Langford.

 

Yes, and unlike you, I know what I am talking about.

 

1. Very debatble as to who threw more, I wouldn't be in the least suprised if you counted officially how much punches were thrown that Charles threw more. Ali was very inactive in the mid rounds to the point of doing basically nothing, Charles despite being this old and in this condition bla bla was active throughtout. Alot of Ali's punches particularly after the 5 round were mostly lazy jabs, Charles sat down and threw harder shots (doesnt mean hit actually hit harder than Ali)

2. I agree

3. I dunno if he was punching tired, it's Rocky, he fights at a ridiculous pace one round and then does it again the next hard it's to know just how tired he was. Also I doubt it made his power weaken that much, he's well credited for carrying power late KO'd Louis, Charles in the 8th, Cockell and Moore in the 9th, Lastarza in the 11th, Walcott in the 13th.

4. No he's not his punches look severly weakened, he's throwing alot less of them and he's no where near as credited for carrying power late like Marciano (as I showed above).

5. Agreed, but that's just Rocky's style.

If Marciano can keep throwing punches while tired and throwing alot more than Frazier wouldn't you be inclined to say he's got more stamina? Or even more willpower?

 

I'd also say Ali would beat Charles although wouldn't be so brash as to say fairly easily. Frazier has never showed a workrate like Marciano, against any opponent at any point in any fight. Ali was driven to the ropes by Frazier, yes, but he'd be there regardless he was gassed and needed to recover.