What if Ali had been 175 lbs?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by MrPook, Jun 23, 2009.


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  1. MrPook

    MrPook Boxing Addict Full Member

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    What if Ali had been a light heavyweight?

    Lets say that after winning the Olympic gold medal at light heavyweights he could stay at light heavyweight.

    So therefore he would not have developed the heavyweight frame so their is no problem making the weight ( It's impossible I now, but what IF ) and therefore he would not have developed the same punching power. Still he would not need the same punching power to be successful as an LHW.

    Also he would even be more agile and faster then he was at heavyweight.

    Also he still would have the same chin (or almost as good) as at heavyweight and the recovery ability's. Therefore it would even harder for his competition to knock him out.

    Also he would still develop/ have the heart and fire that he had as a heavyweight.

    How would he have done in the era that he fought in? And would he be considered being p4p #1 of all time? Since being a heavyweight works against him in that case I think.
     
    MrPook, Jun 23, 2009
    MrPook, Jun 23, 2009
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  2. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Thing is, Ali was about as fast at 212 lbs as he was at 175 lbs. He had quite an amazing physical development between 1960-1967 in that he bulked up, but didn't really seem to lose any speed. That's what made him so remarkable at 212 lbs.
     
    Bokaj, Jun 23, 2009
    Bokaj, Jun 23, 2009
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  3. MrPook

    MrPook Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He might have carried most of his speed with him. Still he must have left some behind.

    Also I am not only talking of hand speed. But also his footwork, overall agility, work rate, and the endurance that would allow him to fight at a higher pace during the fight.
     
    MrPook, Jun 23, 2009
    MrPook, Jun 23, 2009
    #3
  4. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    But he seemed to lose very little, or even none, of that. I don't think he looks faster or more agile in the Olympics than he does against Williams or Terrell. It should also be noted that Ali mainly had trouble with speed and workrate, and not power and durability. Jones, a natural LHW, gave him his toughest fight in the 1960's. I don't think Ali would have been quite as dominant as a LHW. Hard to say of course because he was far from the finished product when he still fought at LHW. But even though he would have been the fastest LHW, he probably wouldn't have had the same speed advantage he had as a HW.

    It is food for thought, though, and an interesting angle.
     
    Bokaj, Jun 23, 2009
    Bokaj, Jun 23, 2009
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  5. MrPook

    MrPook Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He might not have had the same speed advantage as at HW, but I forgot about the reach advantage he would have had over most LHW.
     
    MrPook, Jun 23, 2009
    MrPook, Jun 23, 2009
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  6. Bill Butcher

    Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

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    I already see Ali as no2 p4p behind only Robinson, so he`d either be 1 or 2, a lot would depend on his longevity, who he beat & lost to, if he lost 3 n a half prime yrs thru the draft etc & if he were to step up to HWT & add a title there to add to his legacy because by the time Ali fought, SRR was already cast in stone as the GOAT in a lot of peoples minds.

    Robinson is a hard guy to topple from the top spot but if anyone could, maybe a LHWT Ali without the 3+ yrs interruption of his prime & a HWT title to cap off an undefeated career could do the trick :think
     
    Bill Butcher, Jun 23, 2009
    Bill Butcher, Jun 23, 2009
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  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I agree with you, and he became more "stabbing" with his speed, making him look a little faster if anything.

    To answer the original question, for me, the #1 p4p needs to show some measure of achievments at other weights. The usual suspects, Langford, Greb, Armstrong and Robinson all have this. In fact, going down through my list, there is basically nobody but Pep who is known primarily for one weight, they all did great things elsewhere, until you get out of the teens.
     
    McGrain, Jun 23, 2009
    McGrain, Jun 23, 2009
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  8. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He needed the extra weight.....he was knocked down by Cooper & Hunsaker.

    Foster would have put him down too.
     
    Longhhorn71, Jun 23, 2009
    Longhhorn71, Jun 23, 2009
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  9. Bill Butcher

    Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

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    You also said if he could have the same chin... well, remember Ali letting Foster tee off on his chin & pretending to wobble ?.... & Foster was probably the hardest hitting LHWT ever, imagine a LHWT letting Foster tee off on his chin just to gain a mental edge :yikes scary stuff. That boldness alone would have made Ali a legend if he was a 175 lb fighter.
     
    Bill Butcher, Jun 23, 2009
    Bill Butcher, Jun 23, 2009
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  10. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    That's true.
     
    Bokaj, Jun 23, 2009
    Bokaj, Jun 23, 2009
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  11. MrPook

    MrPook Boxing Addict Full Member

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    So a fighter who only fights at one weightclass ( like most heavyweights ) do have zero to no chance to ever be p4p #1 no matter how good they are?

    He became Olympic champion at LHW so I don't see why he would need the extra weight. Although it probably did increase his punch resistance a little.
     
    MrPook, Jun 23, 2009
    MrPook, Jun 23, 2009
    #11
  12. guncho

    guncho next champion! Full Member

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    we would not talk about him!
     
    guncho, Jun 23, 2009
    guncho, Jun 23, 2009
    #12
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It's hard, but most list reflect this fact.

    And the bottom line is it is really hard for a natural 140lb fighter to beat top men at 160 than it is for a natural 140lb fighter to be at top men at 140. In other words, men who work their way through one or more weight classes taking serious scalps with them as they go are tending to prove themsleves better than the guys who are stuck in one weight class.
     
    McGrain, Jun 23, 2009
    McGrain, Jun 23, 2009
    #13
  14. MrPook

    MrPook Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I don't see it as a fact. Ali beating Liston, Patterson, Frazier, Foreman, Norton and a lot of other good names. That is a fact.

    Also the heavyweights is a open class. Therefore a heavyweight champion has to overcome all kinds of sizes and styles that come with it.
     
    MrPook, Jun 23, 2009
    MrPook, Jun 23, 2009
    #14
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    You don't think it's harder for a natural 140lb man to beat a natural 160lb man? All things being equal, I think it's pretty obvious.
     
    McGrain, Jun 23, 2009
    McGrain, Jun 23, 2009
    #15
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