What if Ali had no existed. How would the HW division have shaped up?

A couple of observations.

I dont think Liston would have held the crown untill 1968. He had started to neglect his training and drink before bouts. He was an upset waiting to happen.

I dont think that Foreman would have been a long reigning champion either. He had never been past 10 rounds and would have run into the wrong guy sooner or later.

while this is not to say that Liston and Foreman would not have been dominant champions of sorts they would not have been ones with longevity.

I would expect a few other fighters like Ellis, Lyle or Young to hold the title for short tenures at some point.

 

Foreman would have ruled the 70's

 

agreed. foreman wasn't mentally right after his loss to Ali plus he was paranoid about punching himself out from then on. i still think pre-ali foreman would be knocking them all out early.

 

Foreman rules forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I dont think he would have.

Fighters like Foreman do not enjoy long title reigns.

He might have been the biggest name of the 70s but I dont see him holding the title untill Larry Holmes comes allong.

 

Yeah but think about this Janitor. That means he probably would have reigned from about 1973 to maybe 77 or 78. That's 4-5 years. Rarely do champions have longer reigns than that. In the mean time, he could have very conceivable cleaned house on nearly everybody.

 

It is certainly a possible scenario but one that you have to be verry cautious about for the following reasons:

1. Heavyweight champions with long title reigns have always been ones who either consistently retained their focus after winnig the title, or went for long periods without defending it.

Outstanding peak ability dose not guarantee longevity and once a champion starts neglecting his training he is headed for a beating.

3. Nearly all heavyweight champions with long title reigns have been of the boxer or boxer puncher type.

So George Foreman having a long title reign depends upon his navigating these obstacles.

He must remain focused on his training, perhaps moreso than a boxer or boxer puncher type. If he pulls a Joe Frazier he is gone.

He must either overcome some uncomfortable stylistic matchups or pick his challenger verry carefully.

 

All of the above is very true and I agree completely, however there are a few things to consider.

1. It is widely speculated that Foreman's loss to Ali, contributed largely to his decline. Some say he lost confidence, focus, interest, etc. In so doing, his intensity diminshed leading to further flat performances and even a loss later.

2. Outside of Holmes and Young, neither of whom emerged until the later 70's, I can think of no one who would have beaten him between 74-77. It is inevitable that he would have given Frazier a second shot at the title. He likely would have been forced into a mandatory with Quarry, but frankly, i think Goerge would have killed him. He already showed he could beat Lyle, only without the loss to Ali looming over him, he might even done it with less dificulty. Shavers was no match for him. We saw what he did to Norton.

 

:hi: Big George

 

I take issue primarily with Quarry beating Liston.

I'm a Quarry fan, but I'm struggling with it.

 

The boxing, smart Quarry maybe.

The Quarry who tried to beat the crap out of Frazier, I don't think so.

 

i concur

 

I agree with this in general. A Quarry with his head screwed on right looks a good beat to beat an aging and unmotivated Liston (if someone doesn't get there before, but who would that be? Folley? Perhaps. Cooper, Mildenberger, Chuvalo, Terrell? Not likely).

I think that Young might have beaten Foreman in 76 or 77, though.