What if Ali was never exiled?

I disagreed with your point re Tyson, I am not a demented fan and try to be balanced but I felt all prison did for him was turn him into a circus, his comeback made money but was a disaster, he could have made more cash minus the prison stint imo. The Ali comeback was a different story and I agree with many of your points here, I don't think it's a given he would have beat Frazier due to the factors mentioned

 

Fair enough. I'm probably not referring to you. Disagreement is fine.

Yeah, I think people assume he would have stayed at his 1967 peak or better for long enough and been fed a green-ish Frazier.
But I doubt it would have happened like that.

 

So did the son of a wealthy whit guy, and he ended up being the president. Add to that Clay was right to refuse to want to kill innocent women and kids thousands of miles from his own country and it becomes a no brainer.

 

There is more than ample reason to believe that the 25 year old, 28 bout Ali hadn't even reached his peak in 67, so nobody knows for sure how things would have panned out.

 

Hey dagowop! I place Ali #1 all time because of his exile but, if you've read my other posts/opinions, I simply don't think he could have remained undefeated until the time you say. IMO he would have lost sometime in the early seventies.
Sidebar: look at Foreman. Do you think he would have had the success he had had later in his career had he not taken off for so long? Boxing = protracted punishment not getting a break from action.

 

The exile was good for Ali's career. He got a bit of rest and came back stronger with a lot more hype and media attention behind him. I fail to see how he got "slower" and all that ****. There are plenty boxers who had long breaks in their career like Andre Ward. How is whatever problem Ali had different than whatever problems Ward had? You could argue that it's injustice or whatever but in the end it is what it is. It's still better than suffering some long term injury or going to prison.

Without the exile Ali would beat the guys that he beat, perhaps more convincingly, but I can see him losing a fight to Frazier too. With his fighting style though he would have definitely sustained a lot of punishment and would have become just as punch drunk, just sooner.

 

he would have lost a fight, same as holyfield lost to bowe

 

Yes, that was my point. His prison years probably saved him some earlier defeats.
And my points regarding Ali are only "vaguely similar". :good

 

There's reason to believe he was at his peak or very close to it.
Maybe he gets better and reaches his peak at 26 or 27 years old, with 35 bouts. Maybe he slacks off right there.
It's all speculation.

 

I think that Ali and Foreman are two different principles. Foreman reliead on pure strength, fear, and his power to win. Those things don't really go away like speed of both hand and foot in Ali's case as well as reflexes and weight gain. I read/heard somewhere that Ali ballooned up to 240 during his exile. That takes a toll on the body whether or not he loses that extra weight. I believe that was one of the reasons his performance went down.

 

I agree but I think by, say, 73 his 'Waterloo' may have been approaching. :?

 

possibly makes number 1 ATG ahead of Louis by a margin , or possibly loses his belts to frazier though he regains them in rematch.

 

Perhaps but I still think he would have enough to beat Foreman. I mean...Ali wouldn't be drastically different. We would have seen an even more amazing fighter from 67'-70' then he would have slowed down a bit but not as much as he did. By 72' he's the post exile Ali we remember. I still think Norton beats him. Norton's entire game plan was based around parrying the jab and Ali still wouldn't know how to parry a jab so he loses there.