What if Ali wasn't exiled for those years????

Frazier was not ready yet.

Maybe Bonavena if Ali took him lightly.....but the fight would have to be in Argentina and Oscar had to stay on Ali's case through out the fight.

 

Smokin Joe, was ready in 1969.

Ali for 1967,
March.......W KO 7.....Zora Folley
April..........W KO 10.....Thad Spencer
June..........W Dec 15.....Oscar Bonavena
September...W KO 11....Eduardo Corletti
December....W KO 8....Piero Tomasoni

Can't see any of those guys defeating Ali.
Thad Spencer would be competitive thru 8 Rounds, before getting stopped in 10.
Oscar Bonavena goes 15-rounds, but Ali would probably win by a convincing mark (11-4-0 in rounds)
Eduardo Corletti another tough Argentinian bull. Hangs tough for 10 rounds, before a TKO in 11.
Piero Tomasoni, a slick boxer, who might make it suprisingly good for 6 rounds, before getting stopped in 8.

 

The only person who could beat Ali during his exile years was Ali.

 

If Ali's exiled years had not been imposed and he had been boxing capable opponents on a regular basis during that period, he would have been in better fighting shape by the time of his first comeback near the end of 1970. I would expect him to remain undefeated during the exiled years if he had been allowed to remain active. I think this version of a never exiled Ali may have defeated Joe Frazier in their first fight in early 1971.

But Ali was in his late 20s by the end of 1970 and Father Time would have been a factor. He would have probably been heavier with some loss of leg speed even if the exile had never happened and it would have altered his fighting style.

 

If he kept up his dedication and discipline, I can't see anyone beating him. He would probably fill out and be around 215-218 around 1969-1970 without losing speed. He should be hitting his absolute peak when taking on Frazier in 68 or 69.

But if he started to slack off in training an upset could have been waiting in the wings. Frazier most likely, but perhaps even someone relatively unknown.

 

He might well have lost, but he would probably have to have slacked off training and lost mental focus to lose his title.

Frazier from 1968 - 1970 would have been a real threat, obviously.

I think Ali would have started to lose some speed and bounce after '67 or '68 anyway. His speed and leg agility was so unusual for a heavyweight, I don't think it lasts past his mid-20s however much he trains.

 

ringo looked good against ali in their fight...although he got ko'd at the end...you think he'd have lasted all the way to the end with a better, younger version of ali to the slower, almost tired looking at times one that he eventually did meet ?

 

frazier would have been slightly younger more in his prime and would have probably knocked out ali in 69 or 70

 

1968 would have been a tough year for Muhammad Ali.
No easy walk-overs.

March......W KO 9.....Floyd Patterson II
May.........W KO 7......Roger Russell
July..........W Dec 15...Leotis Martin
November...W KO 14...Jerry Quarry


1969
March........L KO 11....Joe Frazier (this is where the undefeated run ends)

 

this :deal

 

Something which needs to be considered when thinking about the reality of these years is that he only had the impacted tooth on the left side of his jaw taken care of when Norton's right caused it to produce a fracture. But Frazier didn't have the sort of right hand necessary to exploit this dental negligence.

While I have great respect for Il Duce, I don't believe Smoke would have been able to defeat a never exiled Ali. I do agree Joe would have been ready in 1969 as his career actually unfolded, vaulting to his peak as a result of getting the championship distance of the rugged Bonavena rematch under his belt in December 1968. If the NYSAC had stripped recognition from Muhammad for some reason in 1967, and Smoke had beaten Mathis for their version of that title, making Ali-Frazier I another unification like Ali-Terrell, then I expect that Muhammad would have reunified in 1969 or 1970 via 15 round UD in a bout that would have been hectic for him, and frustrating for Joe.

Chuvalo has been emphatic in stating that the 217 pound Ali he fought in early 1972 was not the same athlete the 215 pounder he squared off with in 1966 was. Patterson supported Chuvalo's observation on this, and George's two bouts with Ali were between Floyd's, thus closer to Muhammad's peak as well as the FOTC.

Although Ali may well have lost the title in an upset at some point (possibly regressing due to a lack of competition), I do think he becomes the first champion in any weight division to get to 30 successful title defenses, whether it be in a single reign or multiple reigns. My alternative to Il Duce's projection is that Norton eventually upsets Muhammad in a world title bout as Ken actually did for the lesser NABF Title, making Ali-Norton rather than Ali-Frazier the signature heavyweight rivalry of the 1970s. For me, Smoke is a top five heavyweight, but Ali is in my top three, and I just don't think Joe gets quite over the hump with a fully prepared and never exiled Muhammad

 

If it played out like that,,,,,,,,,and it would have.

Joe Frazier most likely would have been looking at Sonny Liston for the
fall of 1969, in his next defense.

Muhammad Ali, comes back in late-1969, probably against a soft-touch first in October vs. Dante Cane (W KO 6)
then Buster Mathis (W Dec 12) to finish off the year in December.

Joe Frazier would have been smart enough to get Sonny Liston to sign a rematch-clause, 'just in case'.
But 1969 Joe, would have problems with Sonny, before wearing down the 'old man' for W TKO in 11.

Frazier takes the smart path in 1970, vs. Bob Foster (W KO 2) and vs. Jimmy Ellis (W KO 5), before taking the second half of the year off.

Muhammad Ali, comes back in 1970 , as he calls it the 'Rematch Year' with victories over,
February 1970,,,,,,,Jerry Quarry II (W TKO 9)
April 1970,,,,,,,,,,,, Oscar Bonavena II (W Dec 12)
July 1970,,,,,,,,,,,,, Floyd Patterson III (W TKO 7)
September 1970,,,, George Chuvalo II (W Dec 12).

A December 1970 bout with Sonny Liston is cancelled, due to Sonny's death.
The Nation of Islam is investigated.

 

The way he went for a soft touch in his 1st fight in 3 1/2yrs against quarry?Can i ask an honest question, and i know its just a matter of opinion? How do you pick frazier to KO an Ali in his prime, when the non-prime Ali went the distance in '71. I know joe was a good fighter then but ive never thought of him as being better in 69 than he was in'71.

 

i thought he was better then also a "prime" ali was more offensive causing frazier to get more shots in and ali being more open.