What if Ali wasn't exiled. Would he universelly be seen as the best p4p?

I would argue that Frazier would have always beat him -the first time- as soon as he developed enough to do so. His style was the foil for Ali's casual techniques.

No one else in those three years would have had a prayer.

 

i personally don't think frazier would have beat him.the young ali could go up on his toes and sustain it for 15 rounds.your right about fraziers style being right for the careless ali,but for this fight say made in '68 or so i think ali would have been right on top of his game and beat joe.

 

Nope.


Frazier would've probably beaten an overconfident Ali in '69/'70. And by then, Frazier would be less "established" than he was in reality in '71. Ali going in exile may have been a great thing: it allowed fighters to establish themselves and make a name for themselves, thus becoming bigger wins for Ali when he came back. Think of Louis: during his reign, very few challengers got a chance to establish themselves.

 

Frazier was a great in any era so it would be a tough fight. But i disagree that going in to exile was a good thing for Ali. His style of fighting is based on speed, reflexes and conditioning to keep dancing. 3 years out is a jail sentence for such a fighter. A big powerful puncher like a Foreman it's not so bad but for Ali it is a massive disadvantage.

 

Being exiled actually made him much more popular as he was against a war which had loads of negative press, and he stood up for what he believed in. Also if he had fought during those years he would have been through even more battles by the time he met Foreman he might have lost. I believe Frazier would have still won he had the style also by being away it enabled Frazier to become a name and had that not happened his two wins over him wouldn't have meant as much, although Frazier would have been champ in any era.

 

If he had NOT gone in exile then maybe he would've gotten all overconfident and crap and fat within a year or two and lost to a Thad Spencer, Jimmy Ellis or Oscar Bonavena, not to mention Joe Frazier.

He was looking awesome in his final fights before exile but there's no guarantee that he wouldn't have let it slip.

 

Ali was fighting non-stop from 12 years old til he was 25 at the time of exile. 13 years of continuous training and fighting. I doubt he would've let it slip if he carried on as he never wanted to lose a fight. The boasting was to help him aswell. It put pressure on himself to perform which many seem to ignore. I think he would've been after Rocky's record if he stayed on fighting without any exile and possibly retire at around the same age.

 

Well, I allready rank him #1 ATG, so he may be even more so. The fact that with the 3 year exile he still came back and did what he did, is one of the main reasons I rank him #1. It's an incredible feat to win the title once, but after 3 years and being a very different fighter is amazing.

 

No never

His technicalskills where not nearly good enough for that position

 

Ali needed them three years to chill out. He was an arse hole before his exile, but grow greatly as a person in them years, and it showed in his boxing career.

IMO Ali would not of been half the fighter he became without his three years out, let alone even better...

 

well i can't believe that people can say that ali was better because of those 3 and a half years out.he was just past 25 at the time of the folley fight and in fact was starting to show increased power in his last few fights admitedlly against over the hill opposition in williams and folley(he played with terrell).i just can't believe that the best we would see of ali wouldn't have been in that 3 and a half years.his great speed and reflexes would have still been there allied in my opinion to greater punching power,ali wasn't as light a hitter as people thought anyway.i'm a big fan of smokin' joe but i still couldn't see him beating ali in that period at all.

 

I think you may be missing my point. For Ali to continue after Foley, he would of had to of sold out his principles and put himself up for combat in Vietnam. He probably still would not of been called up, but remember at the time his, I have no problem with the Vietcong was a minority view and a lot of people had little time for him.

But taking them three years off, helped Ali. He learnt how to put his message across without the aggression and nastiness he showed pre 67. He learnt how to use his natural charm and learnt more about himself though his faith.

He was still not perfect; his Uncle Tom remark about Frazier, although to a point had a bit of merit, but still over stepped the mark; and it took him a long time to do justice as a Husband, but there can be little doubt Ali came back better for his exile IMO.