What if buster Douglas had beaten tucker

Actually both Tyson and Douglas were having problems at the time.

The two least-impressive (boring) winning performances of Tyson's early career came in the first half of 1987, against Bonecrusher Smith and Tony Tucker.

Tyson was losing his hair (remember the dime-size bald spot in front that kept getting bigger?) in what his physician determined was "stress related." He went 12 rounds twice and people were writing that he should fire Kevin Rooney. They were trying to market him in a Michael Jordon-type manner, and he was signing endorsement deals and trying to fit into a role he wasn't comfortable with (as a clean-cut celebrity). He was very young (only 20 years old). He had his friends and black celebrities of the day pulling him one way ... and his management pulling him the other. He was tired of the rigid training schedule he'd been operating under since he'd turned pro. Like most 20 year olds, he just wanted some freedom and he was rebelling.

Douglas was also having a lot of problems with his father, who was working his corner and serving as a co-trainer. Billy Douglas was very much a self-promoter. He and Douglas had a volatile relationship. Buster was closer to his mother. Billy used his son's career to try to get attention for himself. When others in Buster's camp wore Buster Douglas shirts, his father wore a Billy Douglas shirt and wanted to talk to reporters covering the Tucker fight about his own career as a fighter, instead. Things got particularly bad in Douglas' camp before the Tucker fight. Billy Douglas was becoming a headache for the camp and was trying to steal the spotlight more than usual. Many at the time felt Douglas quit against Tucker because he didn't want his dad - who was in his corner in that fight - to take credit or share the fame of Buster winning the IBF belt.

Had Buster actually won, the situation with his dad certainly would've gotten worse.

It kind of reminds of when Tyson Fury won the title and then held a press conference at the airport when he returned home. His dad and his trainer were both there. And Tyson's dad spent much of the press conference bragging about how tough he and his son were, and then saying Lennox Lewis ducked him when he was a fighter and seemed to make Tyson look uncomfortable as his dad acted like "he'd" just won the heavyweight title. So it didn't really surprise me when Tyson Fury had issues after the fight and ended up dumping the belts. I'm sure much of that had to do with the relationship with his father, who wasn't there for much of his career (his dad was in jail and his uncle was his trainer) and then seemed to want to take all the credit for his son winning the title.

Had Douglas beaten Tucker, I think Buster would've been in such bad mental shape that he would've folded kind of like he did against Evander. The first time Mike hit him hard, Douglas just would've looked for a way out.

Because Mike Tyson, for all his problems at the time, could still manage to turn it on like he did against Pinklon Thomas (who was doing very well himself before Tyson opened up on him).

I don't think Buster could've taken an onslaught like that.

 

Interesting comments on Fury, i noted same.

 

I think Buster would probably lose to Tyson in around five rounds. And it would be worse for Tucker, who would fade into obscurity after a devastating defeat like that.

 

It's funny, Douglas had plenty of talent but I think the record shows he only had desire enough for one truly great fight.

Don't get me wrong, his run before the Tyson fight was terrific, beating McCall and Berbick so there was plenty of good wins in Buster without the Tyson win to say he was more than just a one trick pony. But those fights went under the radar and he was hungry for those wins. After Tyson, buster wasn't hungry for anything else but food.

So even though I voted Douglas always beats Tyson, it's meant strictly with the effort he did beat Tyson with.

For me, if Douglas is hungry enough to still prove a point after beating Tucker then he absolutely can beat Tyson right after it. If Douglas is only content enough with just beating Tucker then I am afraid he would turn up in the wrong frame of mind.

The answer is "it's up to Douglas"

 

Tyson with rooney fought disciplined behind his jab, moving his head with fast and purposeful footwork. Anytime he didnt have a real boxing trainer(1989-90, 1995-96) he Just decided to try and just rush, brawl and kill his opponent with lead power shots because he thought he could beat anyone just on strength and power. That arrogance cost him. Tyson under Rooney, Giachetti and Tommy Brooks was completely different. Even when he was with Freddie Roach at the end of his career he still tried to come in behind his jab against Williams. Tyson under Rooney was the version best equipped to bet Buster and If buster comes in any less than he did in Tokyo he is getting KO'd. Tokyo Douglas takes Rooney Tyson to the scorecards in a close fight(Unless Tyson lands a huge Bomb and just KOs him with one punch). Tyson, before prison, only faded down the stretch when he had a fight already won and was dominating, then he got lazy and complacent.

 

I was just about to say the same thing.

 

For all his talent the thing that stopped Tyson from doing what he did best wasn't to do with who was in his corner but the sheer shock of coming up against resistance for the first time. The best fighter in the world with the best coach in the world can still be forced to not work behind his jab if his opponent is ready for the jab, knows when you are going to try it and punish you each time you think about trying it.

I am not saying Tyson was not a tough guy, he certainly was, but really what threw him more than anything else was coming up against a guy who had an answer for everything he did. Somebody who studied his style, was ready, could predict each move before he could do it and not show a shred of intimidation or doubt.

Until that point everything Tyson ever tried in the professional ring had worked out for him. He never had a punch land short and have to pay for it, or paid for buying a feint. Douglas introduced him to all of this and he just wasn't ready for it. He had to draw upon an experience had had never had. He had to come up for something Douglas wasn't ready for, that Douglas could not predict. He had to be able to do it instinctively, but doing something instinctively is not an instinct yet if you haven't done it before.

 

Its not about who was in the corner it was about how he had prepared for the fight and the gameplan he used. If you cant tell the difference in terms of technical ability and skill then i dont know what to tell you. Doulas had an answer for everything he did but everything he did in that fight was maybe 30% of what he was capable of when he was well prepared and fighting well. tucker was very competitive the first few rounds and Thomas won the majority of the rounds after the first before he got knocked out but Tyson had such a variety of tools at his disposal that he managed to outjab tucker and find a way to put away Thomas, Tyson was ill prepared and fighting like an arrogant ***** afer firing Rooney until he lost to Douglas. Douglas tyson loses to Tucker, broken hand or not, loses to Holmes and probably loses to Thomas considering it took a 20 punch combination on the chin to take him out. Tysons form degenerated when he wasnt with a reall boxing trainer because he thought he could just rush everyone and knock them out and maybe he could ith 90% of opponents but tyson was always at his best moving in behind his jab, using angles, moving his head, throwing combinations

 

If everything he could do was only 30% of what he could do how do you know it wasn't reduced to 30% by Douglas?

Any fighter is only as good as his opponent let's him be and everything Tyson took into the ring with Douglas was exactly what he took into the ring and won with against Frank Bruno and Carl Williams, two very good fighters.

I don't think Douglas Tyson necessarily loses to Tucker. Tyson was not losing to a guy running away which was a lot of what Tucker was doing. Tyson is not losing to Holmes either. In fact Tyson was in worse Physical shape for Tucker than he was for Douglas.

The rounds Tyson lost to pinklon Thomas show that Tyson wasn't really any worse against Douglas. Thomas had not fought at that level for a long time and wasn't really as well equipped to capitalise as Douglas had. For one thing Thomas list ground in the first round where he was less able to establish ring centre or any authority from the beginning and received an absolute roasting from Dundee in the corner after it. Then when Thomas got into the fight he tired himself lost concentration again. His focus was not as sharp against Tyson but it was the same Tyson Who managed to deck Douglas.

larry has said he had doubts going into the ring with Tyson. Tyson reads into that kind of thing. Larry fought at a walk and was exposed as soon as Mike wanted to end it. Larry was like a lot of opponents Tyson had who were not fully confident, who were not fully active, who were not beating actual contenders. Who had not worked out Tysons style.


Douglas was fully confident. He was beating active contenders. He was able to work out Tyson's style.

 

Jesus Christ you drank the "Tyson was just a bully, he lost all his big fights and only beat bums" kool aid so i cant really convince you anyway. If you think it was all Douglas and it was the same Tyson showing up with the same skillset he had under Rooney then I got nothing to say.

I can tell because I know enough about boxing to differentiate what Douglas took away and what Tyson didnt bring on his own. He took tysons aggression, made him cautious(to the point where Tyson would spend alot of time waiting outside or trying to wrestle inside) But Tyson didnt bring the footwork, didnt bring the jab, the elusiveness the combinations.
And like i said the approach Tyson used when not being trained by a real boxing trainer worked against 90% of guys, guys including Bruno and Williams, not Douglas who had all the attributes to dominate a fighter who chose to enter the ring with a style and skillset that was reduced to a midget with great chin and a great punch. Tyson at his best was much much more than that.

 

You make good points, I just happen to think if it was down to Tyson being that bad then Carl Williams would have been good enough to have beaten him too. I think Carl was a better opponent and better equipped than Thomas, Bruno, Tubbs and Holmes when they faced Tyson yet without Rooney Tyson still brought that skillset to beat Williams easier than any of them.

The Rooney thing gets over played.

Douglas did well to continue after he was knocked down. Tyson was in shape enough to withstand that beating. He never quit.

 

Tyson landed one punch on Truth so we can't really tell what would've happened if Truth decided to duck. But up until that point Tyson didn't look any better than the Bruno and Douglas fights.

Winning the Williams fight THAT way might've backfired on Tyson, who was probably thinking all he needed to do was land a single shot no matter how many corners he cut during training. Overconfidence.

 

Nobody, and I mean nobody, was picking Williams in that Tyson fight. He keeps his hands low. He brings them back low after punching and maybe sometimes, raises them up to their proper position. Not always though. Keeps that head straight up. Wide open for counters.

Tyson did not have to create any openings on the guy. They were there the second the bell rang to begin the fight. With Douglas, he had to break the guy down. Whole different ballgame.

Back to Williams.....everyone saw the Weaver left hook land over the low hands of the Truth. He never saw the punch coming which makes you question any sort of boxing radar. Tyson has 3 or 4x the speed of Weaver. And he had the balance to throw combos which Weaver never did when he loaded up. Those things are critical flaws against an opponent like Tyson. And nobody thought his punches or technique was going to nullify Mike's offense. And Carl had no big punch, so how was going to withstand that early Tyson assault with that defense?

Williams was going to get hit clean by Tyson at some point in the fight. Once he did, it was going to be over. Academic. And that's why he was selected as a soft voluntary defense kind of fight by the Tyson camp.

 

No Williams would have always been open to left hooks, and even a bad Tyson is still very dangerous. Tyson showed a great chin and toughness in that fight but he showed even greater durability vs Ruddock when he was very well prepared. People say he was declining by then but Tyson had the perfect gameplan for Ruddock(Because he was being trained by a real boxing trainer in Giachtetti) He didnt move his head side to side because ruddock wasnt throwing alot of jabs and straights that tyson had to get inside of, he had to be careful not to duck into or weave into one of those "Smashes" Tyson used his jab when he needed to, but Tysons jab was always a weapon to keep his opponents hands at home so tyson can get inside, but Ruddock was mostly covering up and then randoly exploding with a few bombs so Tyson did well to pick his spots and counterpunch. And when Ruddock tried to stiffarm Tyson with his left Tyson Jabbed. Tyson was always much much better under a real boxing trainer.
The funny thing is against both Douglas and Holyfield Tyson isnt given enough credit for his toughness because he was such an odds favorite but if he had came in as a 25 to 1 underdog all everyone would be talking about was his heart and chin to stick in that long against guys that were outclassing him on that night. Whether he was expected to win beforehand or not doesnt change how much punishment Tyson took in his losses but People forget about it because of the shock that he lost in the first place