What if Cassius Clay never became a boxer?

Sonny Liston hardly trained for Cassius Clay in Feb.1964 and he was well over-confident. He would have probably lost the title in his second, third or fourth defense whoever he was facing, either through lack of discipline or a fix. Someone like Ernie Terrell or a rematch with Machen or Folley. So I doubt he would have remained champ until '68 or '69, he probably would have lost the title before 1966.

 

i agree only i believe by 79 or 80 holmes would have taken over

 

Yep, we can't discard the probability of Holmes defeating Foreman by 79 or 80.

However, I feel that the jury is still out on this, because Foreman would have a very real chance of stopping Holmes in this scenario.

Of course, here we are taking about an hyphotetical 70s Foreman that never was: as a reigning undefeated champion, with improved skills, more experience, and supreme self confidence .... no the emotional wreck that was in real life after Kinhasa.

 

I think thats a fair assumption although I think Holmes would have had a chance to take an older Foreman out. Although thats all pretty much guesswork.

 

What if Cassius Clay never became a boxer?

McGrains thread about if you like Muhammed Ali would have made no sense

 

I think Liston would continue to lose his focus and eventually get upset by someone who he "shouldn't" lose to; a Quarry, Ellis, Bonavena or Martin.

ESB would go nuts and stories of Liston being 56 years of age as well as weight drained, overweight, and only having lost because of the maffia, would dominate the main page.

 

Did Liston ever give any indication of a time he would have liked to retire ?

 

I know he was signed to fight George Chuvalo before he died.

 

Foreman would of reigned until he met Holmes.

 

..... and the lucky contender that caught him slipping (Terrell, Quarry, whoever) would be hailed as the greatest of all-time by later generations and the victory lauded as one of his finest, even if it ended unsatisfactory with an injury retirement/premature quit job. :good

(..... Liston benefits historically too, having only lost his championship because he ran in to the greatest of all-time !)

 

i think after Ali beat him it unconsciously gave other fighters that spark that they could actually beat the guy aswell. Then again would Holmes be as good without Ali's sparring?