what if Foreman did not retire in 1977?

Okay so the fact that Frazier was an 11 fight novice had nothing to do with him getting decked even though we saw him redeem himself against the same opponent later and while being more experienced.. Interesting.. By this logic someone could also make a case for more people taking Foreman the distance just because Gregorio Peralta did it when George was an umteen fight prospect. To address some of your other points, Foreman was a trim 235 lbs when he fought Qawi and already 8-9 fights into his comeback. Stewart, Moorer and Martin also took Foreman rounds and the first two even landed regularly against him despite not having a great chin and while standing right in front of him. I don't think Foreman's power nor two fisted attack was there anymore in the 90's. sure he still hit VERY hard but he wasn't the destroyer of the 70's which is why I think that a fast handed Joe Frazier might have lasted more rounds with him and even gotten off some of his better shots. In the end its possible that a 90's Foreman might have beaten a 1973 Frazier, but I doubt its happening in two rounds and without working up a sweat.

 

Agreed. Defenses can improve over time but the ability to take a shot flush to the face generally doesn't

 

Usually true, but there are exceptions.

Briggs put on a lot of weight and his neck has become much stronger in his later years. KO'd early in his career a no name, he took flush shots in his later age by Ibragimov, and Klitschko rather well.

Chins are misunderstood in boxing. While I think you can build up your resistance to take it by being hit and by strengthing your neck, if your mental resistance goes up or down, so does your " chin ".

 

Foreman added size,he started his career at pro of about 210...obviously a 6'3/6'4 guy whatever...is going to add mass at HW if hes a power puncher and thus taking better punches as well...there's a differance from Frazier who was 5'11 and fought at his best at 205,even though probably took a better punch at 215 but was not built to carry it. Foreman's jab was much better as well in the 90's a much harded crisp power drill that set up punches even if he was slightly slower,he was more effective at getting that right hand home. Had Holyfield had not a iron chin and in great shape he would have been k.od eventually.

Before you bring TYSON into this...Tyson was naturally and physically athletic at 5'10/5'11 two totally different body types to frazier as referance of carrying 215/220 pounds.

 

Increasing the strength of the neck is pretty much the only area where there has been no advance since Foreman's day, or perhaps since Corbett’s day for that matter.

There is something in what you say about mental resistance, but I don't think that this is likely to be a factor in a fighter who had already attained lineal tittle level.

 

Mental resistance and focus really matter. Example: Buster Douglas vs Tyson....and then vs Holyfield.

A fighter can also learn to " roll with the punches " as he ages taking a little off the blows.

 

I think that is more a matter of desire and preparation, neither of which Foreman ever lacked.

Then that would be an improvement in technique, not in durability.

 

Old Foreman was not a better fighter than prime Foreman. Old Foreman was as slow as an old barn door. Prime Foreman had excellent speed (as per Ali himself). The thing with prime Foreman was he fought like a force of nature...a very quick starter looking to kill with every blow. Not many in boxing history gets through the first five rounds with that Foreman. Foreman post Ali or Old Foreman could be much more easily outboxed as his slowed down style/slowed down punches made him a much easier target.

 

What makes the "old Foreman’s was better" argument particularly silly is the difference in results!

Young Foreman dominated every ranked fighter that he came up against, with the odd exception.

Old Foreman lost to every ranked fighter that he faced, with the odd exception.

Should any of this surprise anybody?

 

foreman did not weight 210 pounds even in a single fight in his complete career

 

and who would you pick to give him the surprise?

 

gerry cooney beating foreman? and hitting harder than foreman? nah.. conney is not beating foreman, he loses every time by ko, foreman not only did hit harder but had much better chin. i would pick a cute stylist to trouble foreman, not a puncher

 

i agree.. it is stupid

 

Exactly.

 

How many of these "ranked fighters" did young Foreman come up against ?
He lost to Ali and Young, and certainly didn't dominate Lyle.