What if Frazier and Ali fought in the 60s?

If Ali had been active in 68,69,70 ,he would have been bigger and stronger.Frazier had three tries at Ali and never stopped him, no way would he stop what would have been a prime Ali. I said Ali may have tkod Frazier ,that is not koing him.

 

Frazier had problems with swelling around his face , it' s likely that a prime Ali would hit him considerably more than the Ali that faced him in FOTC.

" After the fight Joe's face was a mess.It was all lumped up: his eyes,His cheekbones,around the forehead.

He was in a lot of pain,and I remember his saying.Can't somebody do somehting about this:it hurts.He wasn't whining: he was very controlled , but it definitely wasn't matter of fact.
He was hurting, he wanted help.
One of the doctors gave him a painkiller, and he spent a long time soaking his face in ice water.
Some one poured ice into the sink just off the dressing room.
Joe put his head in and kept it there so long I thought he was going to drown."
David Wolf.
I think it's reasonable to think a prime Ali might have done more damage than he inflicted in that fight and caused a tko. I wouldn't use the term brutalise.

 

You don't think the nearly 4 years lay off was a factor ?

 

So much unsupported garbage.

Facts

Ali did not have a bout for years...he was rarely in the gym...these were his prime years. Dundee who knows much more than you....don't you think?.... stated..."we never saw Ali in his prime". As such Frazier never saw anything close to prime Ali. Conversely MOST including myself would say the best Frazier ever looked was against Ali in 71. He was in his prime and a fully active hwt champion. Certainly this was Joes best opponent by far up till that time and in the midst of his prime years.

Regarding Ali dancing or not dancing 15 rounds. Every fighter takes rounds off...that's not the point. Ali could predominantly move, dance and box for 15 rounds pre exile. He could not do so post exile. Makes sense because he was inactive for years and by the time he became active again he was past his physical prime. To quote Ray Arcel...to rest is to rust.

George Chuvalo...remember him? He fought both prime and past prime Ali and he stated the Ali he fought in fight two was not the same fighter than the Ali from the 60's.

The other point is if prime Ali had fought Joe in 1968 Frazier would have been that much less experienced whereas Ali would have been in his absolute prime. No matter how you look at it Ali would have been that much better than the Ali of 71 who lost that fight by only two points. That hook would not be landing as frequently and Ali would have no need to rest along the ropes as he did in 71. This alone quite easily makes up the 2 points he lost fight one by.

It's a competitive bout but Ali moves more, spends less time on the ropes, is hit less because of this and walks away with the U decision. 9-6 in rounds.

 

More to the point, do you actually believe the 4 ( actually 3 yrs 8 months with 2 fights in the ensuing 4 months ) ) year lay off DID have something to do with the fact that Ali had NEVER seen such pressure?

Ali had NEVER faced, and COULD NOT understand that here was a guy who was quite WILLING to let himself get punched just to do his own work.

This was ANATHEMA to Ali, who's first instinct, like everyone, even Chavalo, was to try to avoid getting hit.

Joe, basically didn't give a fvck, and that confused both Ali, and Dundee in that first instance. They just didn't know wtf to do about it, and they deservedly LOST.

 

Foxy...complete misrepresentation of Fraziers tactics in fight one. Most every fighter put pressure on Ali...it took past prime Ali to succumb to that pressure....but just for one fight.

 

I was trying to make the point that comparing Ali's slaying of a totally shot (and not that great at his best) Williams to Frazier's performance against Ali isn't a fair comparison.

My point is that its easier to look great against someone who is completely outclassed.

Maybe Mathis isn't the best example, but I was trying to make a similar comparison in **** opponents.

You cannot fairly compare a Ali against Williams and then Frazier against Ali when it comes to how great they looked. One is fighting a corpse and the other is fighting against a great fighter and is forced to bring out reserves of attributes not necessary when fighting lesser opponents.

Make sense?

 

Arthur Mercante who was closer to the action than anyone not actually in it, gave the fight 8-6-1and said, "Muhammad could have had a draw on my card by changing one round,,and he could have won the fight by changing two.As I said before if he hadn't leaned against the ropes taking punches for a couple of rounds he could have won that fight".

 

I see your point.I just feel Frazier was at his best when he fought Ali in FOTC.

 

This is the point of view that I suscribe to.:good

 

Stop saying Frazier only won by two rounds. That was one of the scorecards, the others had him by three and seven. And Ali really only potentially gave away the eighth by laying on the ropes, he wasn't winning the sixth regardless. And if Frazier doesn't give away the fifth, he wins 10-5 on my card.

 

I am quoting the referee who was nearer to the fight than anyone else and is universally recognized as one of the best third men we have seen. To be honest, I place more value on his opinion than yours.

 

Is this thread a joke?

I love Joe but prime Ali schools him!!!

 

Ali wins by around 9 - 6 on the cards.