What if Frazier and Ali fought in the 60s?

What If ali and Frazier fought in the '80's?

 

Are you saying you know boxing but don't know there was significant controversy as to when Alis jaw was broken? Here is Norton in 1975.....

In the interview with BI he maintained it was the 12th and final round in which he broke Ali's jaw, not the second as Ali claimed. "In the last round I hit him with a right hand and he became very defensive," Norton said. "The break in the jaw was an inch and a half long and he was being hit throughout the fight. If you are in that much pain, the mind would shut off. I think the pain would get you."

Ken Norton from his own book page 65-66
I eventually pinned Ali against the ropes and laced some ferocious shots Including the punch I believe broke his jaw. Why do I think I broke his jaw in round 12 and not the 2nd? For the plain and simple reason that if I had broken his jaw in the second round Ali would not have been able to take The constant shots to the chin I was putting on him.
Many doctors have told me that a broken jaw is so painful that your mind Takes over and you pass out from the pain. In addition Ali fought much more tentative in round 12 which he did not rounds 1 through 11. Not to put Ali down but I think the idea that Alis jaw was broken in round two was a Rumor started by the people in Alis camp. It's interesting to note that Pecheco was telling the tv crew Ali was fine during the fight. He yelled over to Cosell that Ali had a broken tooth In the 12th round.

The break was clean with a quarter inch separation. How could any man take 10 rounds of punches to the chin without passing out from the pain? Eddie Futch said....."with the shots Ali took Ali jaw would have been shattered By the time Ali got the 12 round decision. In my opinion Alis jaw was broken in round 11 by a right hand Ken caught him with while he had Ali along the ropes. I've watched the tape and all fight Alis expression never changed after being hit until that punch. Angelo is a smart man. He wanted everyone to think Ali was warrior going 10 rounds with a broken jaw. His jaw was broken with that right hand in round 11. I've watched the tape many times and that's when it happened."

You better get another sport to watch. You don't know anything about boxing history. No one bought Alis contention that his jaw was broken in round 2. That is except only his most adoring fans.

 

Lets stick to the facts shall we.

Fact. Ali was KD'd 3 times in his career, each time by left hooks.

You claim one of them was a right hand. ( Even *******s aren't that clueless about their hero and believe me a lot of them are fvcking stupid )

Fact. Ali's camp claimed in the immediate aftermath of the fight his jaw was broken in the 1st round.

Fact. Norton stated, ( again in the immediate aftermath of the fight ) he WASN'T AWARE that Ali had a broken jaw.

Fact. Ali is clearly seen immediately after the fight combing his hair, with NO swollen jaw.

You claim his jaw immediately swelled after a 12th round punch.

Fact. Neither you, Norton, Futch, or anyone else involved with boxing who opines about the jaw injury and its effects including a mans pain threshold are orthopedic experts, therefore your beliefs are worthless.

People on this very board have told you, that either they personally, or family members, have had injuries that until they were x -rayed some time later, due to the continuing pain, were not even aware a bone was broken, so again who the f*%k are you, or Futch, or Norton to state that a broken jaw would cause someone to suffer whatever effects immediately?

You have been pawned, and exposed as a complete Walter Mitty. Give it up, and in fact give up pontificating on a sport in which you nave zero knowledge, but unparalleled amounts of opinionated bull****.

Quoting statements made years after an event, but not even mentioned at the time, are the actions of the desperate.

 

Again you not knowing that there was significant controversy in the aftermath of this bout regarding when Alis jaw was broken speaks loudly that you just have no clue. The specific quotes I posted from Norton and Futch say it all. No fighter can go 10 rounds with a one quarter inch break of their jaw especially considering that said fighter was being pounded on that jaw every round. Add to this that there was no sign of distress by Ali not any attention given to the jaw at the end of round two or at the end of round 11. If the corner knew he had a broken jaw why was nothing done to help Ali? No ice packs...nothing. A broken jaw is a serious injury. A well timed punch on a jaw already broken could have had disastrous results as anyone could imagine.

In the end only the biggest most gullible AlI fan bout the idea that his jaw was broken in round two. You acting like this is all new news shows you need to study up.

 

Chicago Tribune July 21 1973

"Alis ankle was sore, his jaw was broken, His fist was sore, he did not adhere to his religion. He has lots of excuses but he has never said he lost because I beat him. At first he said I broke his jaw in round one then round two. This was proven impossible because I was pounding him on that jaw every round. I actually broke his jaw in the last round. I hit him with a right hand and he immediately became defensive. What kind of excuse is that anyway? I broke his jaw he did not do it running into a telephone pole".

 

For fvcks sake man STOP DIGGING.

So far we've had round 1 from Ali's people. Round 2 from other sources. Norton who didn't even have a clue AT THE TIME, but years later claims round 12, and Futch who claims round 11.

None of this is good enough for you, who actually claims to have SEEN the punch in round 12.

Not only have you got your hero Ali, and his camp as liars, you've also got the legendary Eddie Futch as a fvcking idiot, in your self obsession.

You are delusional.

 

You not knowing all of this is 40 year old news shows your lack of knowledge. Alis claim that his jaw was broken early in the fight was discounted 40 years ago. Nortons version was widely accepted as true.

Only Ali fanboys believed his version.

 

Ali would have won by UD.

By 1967 Ali easily dominated Ernie Terrell and whipped Zora Foley and it was clear that his power was growing. His technical skills were improving with every match. It should be remembered that the initial Ali-Frazier match was only five months after Ali returned from his unjust exile. He had three fights in that short time span and won all of his fights convincingly. Had it not been for the exile, Ali would have fought and defeated every contender. It is likely that, except for a match against Frazier, not one of those fights would have lasted 15 rounds.

 

Ali to fast, to good. Ali wins

 

Well 68/69 Frazier was Joe's real prime (although Ali fans will claim it was FOTC), and Joe would have beaten him even more convincingly, and possibly stopped him.

 

Arthur Abraham had his jaw broken in two places against Miranda, it occured in the 4th rd, he went another 8rds and won the fight.

Kevin Finnegan had his broken against Frank Reiche late in the fight ,the 7th , he went another 3 rounds to the finish.

"The jaw was broken in the second round, Ali was missing a tooth at the point of fracture,and that plus the pressure of Norton's punch broke his jaw.
He could move the bone with his tongue,and I felt the separation with my fingertips at the end of the second round" Ferdie Pacheco.

I like your posts but with the absence of evidence to the contrary on this call I'm inclined to believe Ali's corner rather than Norton's .

Unless you think Pacheco is flat out lying?
I never read that Norton had any medical knowledge, to make a judgement on this , he certainly had a vested interest in asserting the break happened in the last round.
I don't recall Norton making this statement post fight and I watched the fight as it happened.
Norton made his claim in the late 80's early 90's when he was promoting his book,I don't give it any credence I'm afraid.

If you think this makes me gullible ,then so be it.

 

Wrong. There was lots of controversy right after the fight as to when alis jaw was broken. See my post regarding Nortons comments a few months after the fight. All the boxing magazines wrre talking about it. Noone believed the Ali story.

Pacheco did not go near Alis jaw that I could see inbetween rounds. Why would that be? No attention given by a doctor to a broken jaw?

Again this is a 40 year old controversy that was settled 40 years ago. Alis camp were creating all sorts of excuses as to why he lost this fight....sore hands. Sore ankle. Ali was not following his religion and finally the jaw breaking early in the bout.

Alis jaw was fully broken on one side....quarter inch wide. Watch how many clean shots Ali was being hit with after round 10 and no visible signs of excessive pain....until round 12.

 

You make an autocratic "wrong" comment , but offer no evidence to support your theory. As I say ,I like your posts , but you do come across as having," I know best and everyone else is a fool insider syndrome" , on this issue.

 

I certainly did post evidence. Norton is quoted a few months after the fight. Watch the film and see where any of Alis corner touch his jaw.

This is common knowledge. If you were really into boxing back in 73 all this should be known history. Aside from Norton actually winning the fight the controversy over when it occurred was right up there in all the boxing magazines and newspapers. Most thought based on watching the bout Norton was correct.