What If Frazier Had Lost FOTC?

Without Ali in his resume it becomes significantly weaker. Frazier wouldn't probably be viewed as a Top 10 heavyweight that he is viewed today by most.

 

He is in better condition though as he doesn't get beat up by Foreman in the title defense and will keep taking his training seriously instead of getting complacent like he did in real life. With a fair referee unlike what happened in the rematch Frazier still has a chance to beat Ali between 72-74.

 

Did he get complacent or did he come out of the FOTC as damaged goods?

I've said this many times here ... Frazier may have won that fight but Ali beat the ever-loving dog caca out of him that night.

 

Frazier stops being a top 10 guy. Foreman is remembered as a good contender who challenged for the title and lost. (Butterfly effect might remove the comeback entirely.)

Ali eventually loses to somebody. He may regain the title once or twice, only to lose it again.

The Baby Boom boxing fans probably still glorify Ali's era, but it becomes even more of a focus on Ali in particular. By 2025, the dominant view among people without the childhood nostalgia for the 60s/70s is probably that Ali was similar to Louis: a giant in a so-so era.

 

Ali would become champion and likely fight Foreman soon after. Could he win? Maybe, but it's hard to know for sure.

For Frazier, this would mark his peak. He'd still be good enough to beat contenders, but never the same fighter again.

So here's what might happen: Ali beats Frazier to become unified champion. He defends his title several times before facing Foreman. The Foreman fight could go either way since Ali might not take him as seriously as he did in the actual "Rumble in the Jungle." Either Ali wins and remains champion until retirement (possibly losing to Norton along the way), or he loses to Foreman, wins the rematch, and continues from there.

This would strengthen Ali's legacy but weaken Frazier's, possibly dropping him out of the all-time top ten heavyweights. Foreman's legacy might also suffer, as he wouldn't have faced the champion version of Frazier in this scenario, maybe he'd fight Frazier eventually, but not the same fighter who had been at his peak. Overall, this alternate timeline would cement Ali as the definitive best heavyweight ever while diminishing both Frazier's and Foreman's historical standing.

 

I think there was also a mental effect. Joe really, and naively, thought that victory would settle the matter between him and Ali forevermore. I think the fact that it didn’t fueled a lot of his resentment against Ali.

 

This. To many people, FOTC was the biggest win ever in the history of heavyweight boxing and I have trouble disagreeing.

Ali was under 30, undefeated, and already considered Great. His last fight before exile was a demonstration of Elite Mastery possibly unmatched. And Joe had to give the performance of anyone's lifetime, hate won that fight imo.

 

It would definitely drop Frazier several rungs on the all time heavyweight ladder,Fergy. Ali came back after the defeat with that great victory over George Foreman whereas Frazier never gain scored a major victory.

 

On the upside if my man Kenny Norton still beats Ali he becomes a Legend, the first and only who managed to beat the GOAT at his peak or near his peak. He would be way above Foreman and Frazier in the ATG ranking.

We also need to consider that without a Frazier win in FOTC most probably Ali - Frazier 2 and 3 never happen. No Thrilla and no massive damage to Ali.

Not a bad deal.

 

I'm taking it as Frazier getting duped in a fight some thought close but the vast majority had for Frazier. There'd be a quickie rematch as Ali would hate being considered the unworthy winner. There'd be not even a hint of surface rust on Ali in the rematch (tho age was showing) and he'd win a war in the return. Ali's eventual defense against Foreman would be an extremely dangerous affair as he would have no forewarning on the power and fury George brought to the table and there's no chance in the world he would whip himself into the shape he was in Zaire. Ali was a big underdog in Zaire and the horror Foreman could inflict was obvious after he handled two guys that had beaten Ali as if they were little children. So Ali - Foreman under that scenario is a fascinating matchup.

The rest of the dynamic depends on who fights whom and when, and who wins. What fights are made between the trio of Foreman, Ali, Frazier and Norton as time goes by? Cream rises to the top so all four would be prominent in their own ways.

 

Frazier loses recognition as a lineal champion and maybe even as a legitimate champion if Ali wants to pursue the issue. Muhammad could very well have claimed that Joe was only an interim champion and that Ali's rights were taken away by the various commissions and the lower courts without just cause since the U.S Supreme Court ultimately vindicated Ali's position. Thus, Ali might have been able to produce a title run from his victory over Liston in 1964 until his loss to Leon Spinks in 1978, just 10 days short of 14 years. The only fly in that ointment would be his loss to Ken Norton, but Muhammad did win two out of three decisions over Ken, and if Ali was champion he may have had the leverage to choose a more advantageous time and place to fight Norton.