What if Holmes defeated Formean or Frazier in the 1970's?

There have been quite a few thread on Holmes as of late. It seems to me that the board feels Holmes was certainly a top ten all time great, and in some cases a top 5 all time great.

If Holmes had subbed in a beaten the Foreman that Young defeated, and opted to give Frazier a title shot in 1978 ( take out Evangalista ), how much higher would he rank?

With wins over Ali, Foreman, and Frazier, combined with 20 title defenses, and a record mark of 48-0, I think Holmes would be top 1-3 ATG.

 

He's be 3 for me, i have him 4.

 

Frazier was shot to pieces by 1978. Wouldn't count for anything in my books.

 

It would count for something. Name wins tend to look good on résumés. Boxing history is loaded with fighters making a name for themselves on past their prime opposition, or in some cases vs green opposition.

 

Well, I certainly think that the Foreman win would elevate his all time great value. It would likely helpf Foreman's as well, due to the fact that losing to Holmes would have been a less damaging loss than one to Young. As for Frazier, I'm not sure how much it would help him because Joe's career was basically done by 1976. He may however, have been a better win then someone like Evangelista or Ocasio though.

 

For me he'd be a lock for #3. It would be difficult to put him ahead of Ali as in that scenario Ali would have beaten the younger versions of Frazier, Foreman, and Norton not to mention Liston 2x and Patterson which would simply outweigh Holmes's resume.

Even still Holmes I can imagine some circles wher Holmes would qualify for as high as number 2 on ATG lists.

 

top 5 probably. frazier was horribly shot by 1978 so it wouldnt count, but the foreman win would count alot.


still, larry holmes ducked some of the top ALPHA champs of his era, didnt unify one title in a 7 year span(tyson unified all 3 in a one year span), and he never gave rematches in close fights.

 

The broken record picking up where it left off I see.

 

#3 definite.

 

Around about 5 for me. However had Foreman or Fraizer have beaten him they may take my no.4 spot behind Marciano.

 

I could see Holmes beating both Frazier and Foreman in 78-79. Holmes was lucky enough to somehow avoid Clay, Frazier, and Foreman in the 70's. Those fights would've been interesting to see if they'd had occurred in the mid 70's.

 

it never happened so it is pure crap,

 

I have Holmes at number three anyhow. A win over George Foreman in '77 would have further cemented his legacy. As Joe Frazier was shot after Manilla,a victory over him would have been inconsequential.

 

It is hard to weigh these kind of ifs too heavily.

You would also have to consider that he could have lost to both of them.

 

this, the people are talking like a fact that larry would have beaten foreman haha, holmes was not ali, he traded blows with punchers and he had a worse chin than ali, plus the weakness of ali was the left hook, not the big right hands(in the case of holmes), larry hd tons of problems with boxers punchers like spoon, and snipes did put his ass in the floor with a single shot, shavers could not finish him because he was a bad finisher, of course that foreman could have stopped holmes.