What if Joe Frazier had lost the Fight of the century?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mr. magoo, Feb 24, 2009.


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  1. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    That's what I was basically trying to assertain when posting this thread, specifically by asking the opinions of other posters such as yourself.

    His resume had a fair amount of substance prior to fighting Ali. He had won the gold medal, captured the recognized ( but not lineal ) crown, and had beaten good fighters in Quarry, Ellis, Mathis, Bonavena, Machen, Chuvalo. How would he have been rated without the Ali win? I think much of that depends on how long his career would have continued beyond losing to Ali in '71 and what kinds of wins or losses he would have accumulated from that point forth. Frankly, I don't see him regaining the heavyweight title once its gone. Furthermore, by the mid 70's the division was flooded with heavy punchers and Frazier was reaching past prime proportions. So I don't know what his prospects of improving his credentials were..
     
    mr. magoo, Feb 24, 2009
    mr. magoo, Feb 24, 2009
    #16
  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Its an inponderable I think,but very interesting to ponder on!
     
    mcvey, Feb 24, 2009
    mcvey, Feb 24, 2009
    #17
  3. ironchamp

    ironchamp Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Its definately a huge win but its not the biggest scalp in history.
     
    ironchamp, Feb 24, 2009
    ironchamp, Feb 24, 2009
    #18
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    If Frazier had lost the 1st Ali fight, he would not be top 15.
     
    Mendoza, Feb 24, 2009
    Mendoza, Feb 24, 2009
    #19
  5. rekcutnevets

    rekcutnevets Black Sash Full Member

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    Very well said. That is a most likely scenario.

    I would probably bump Frazier from 8 to 11 on my all time list.
     
    rekcutnevets, Feb 24, 2009
    rekcutnevets, Feb 24, 2009
    #20
  6. Titan1

    Titan1 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He may have declined, especially if the motivation wasn't there, and if he had to fight certain fighters like a Lyle, or Young.
     
    Titan1, Dec 29, 2010
    Titan1, Dec 29, 2010
    #21
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I doubt that he would make many top 20 lists.
     
    janitor, Dec 29, 2010
    janitor, Dec 29, 2010
    #22
  8. combatesdeboxeo

    combatesdeboxeo Guest

    a bit Exaggerated, tyson is top 20 and he never did beat any prime legend. frazier would have been ranked better because even if he lost against ali, he would fight close fights against him always, styles make fights.
     
    combatesdeboxeo, Dec 29, 2010
    combatesdeboxeo, Dec 29, 2010
    #23
  9. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    :oops::D
    Right or wrong, Frazier would have been view as a Jimmy Ellis in regards to holding the title, He was just there to hold the title until Ali came back.

    How many people have Ellis in the top 20?? I dont think it would be that far off.

    Frazier's win over Ali, pretty much MADE Frazier "Champ" so to speak in the eyes of the people. With a lost in FOTC, it would relly hurt his rankings.
     
    Dempsey1238, Dec 29, 2010
    Dempsey1238, Dec 29, 2010
    #24
  10. combatesdeboxeo

    combatesdeboxeo Guest

    ellis is top 25 in my opinion.
     
    combatesdeboxeo, Dec 29, 2010
    combatesdeboxeo, Dec 29, 2010
    #25
  11. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I not sure about top 25 for Ellis imo.
     
    Dempsey1238, Dec 29, 2010
    Dempsey1238, Dec 29, 2010
    #26
  12. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It would have been the worst thing that ever happened to boxing........

    Ali would have turned that crown into his own 'personal circus'

    Joe Frazier would have never gotten a re-match, George Foreman would have been forced to take 2 or 3 difficult fights, and we would have never heard of Ken Norton.

    We would have seen, a re-hash of Floyd Patterson II, Jerry Quarry II and
    Osacr Bonavena II, and George Chuvalo II, plus throw in a Jurgen Blin, a comebacking Buster Mathis, Bob Foster, and Mac Foster.

    'Eight the Easy-Way.'
     
    Il Duce, Dec 29, 2010
    Il Duce, Dec 29, 2010
    #27
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Jesus Christ Il Duce. I mean, you're writing a book about Sonny Liston. The other dog in that hunt is Muhammad Ali, like it or not. You better have an air-tight ****ing case or a genuinely world-class editor if this is how you actually feel about the single most important secondary in the Sonny Liston story.
     
    McGrain, Dec 29, 2010
    McGrain, Dec 29, 2010
    #28
  14. RockysSplitNose

    RockysSplitNose Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Great post this one - you put everything pretty much as I would've wanted to -the only difference being my biggest win of all time would be Max Schmelings defeat of prime Joe Louis. I, myself don't have Frazier in my top 10 anyway just out at 13 or 14 if I remember rightly (which is no disgrace at all I don't think - there's no way of shoe horning everyone in - but, you know, Schmeling isn't top 10 even though he pulled of IMO the greatest ever win - loved Frazier - all business and no nonsense and a crowd pleaser - if he had just lost FOTC?? More than a few think he did - probably wouldn't penalise him too much really because I haven't already over rated him because he won it in the first place like I think some do
     
    RockysSplitNose, Dec 29, 2010
    RockysSplitNose, Dec 29, 2010
    #29
  15. combatesdeboxeo

    combatesdeboxeo Guest

    it is simply because you know absolutely nothing about boxing
     
    combatesdeboxeo, Dec 29, 2010
    combatesdeboxeo, Dec 29, 2010
    #30
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