Jofre missed a good 15 months of his career and ultimately gave up the featherweight title due to managerial disputes and the untimely death of his father in 1974. Fights with the likes of Alexis Arguello, Ernesto Marcel and Ruben Olivares were out there to be made during that time (he was actually scheduled to fight Alfredo Marcano when he forfeited his belt). What would have happened if he fought those three over 1974-75? If he beats them, where does he end up all time p4p?
Hmmm, good question mate and let me give it a go. Marcano was a very competent fighter and would have been no cakewalk for Jofre, but his edg in boxing ability would have seen him win a decision imo. As for Marcel I think that is a very bad style matchup for Eder, and I can see his old legs not being to keep up with the speedy Ernesto who was one of the most underrated fighters ever to lace up the gloves. I think Marcel would decision Jofre, but the Brazilian would make it close as he wouldn`t give up his title without a fight. As for Ruben I think this one is a 50/50 fight to be honest. Ruben was still a very good fighter when he moved up to feather although he had clearly lost a step by then, but he was dangerous nonetheless and he did carry his power with him when he moved up for the most part. Put a gun to my head and I`ll go with Jofre at 126, but at 118 is another story but we`ve covered that in another thread recently which pitted these two against one another. Now against Arguello this would be interesting, but I would have to favour the Nicaraguan`s youth and power to have the final say in the outcome of this bout. Not saying that he would knock him out, but Eder would have been facing the hardest hitting opponent in his career and I wouldn`t rule out the possibility of him getting stopped late. I do have a brief clip of the two of them sparring together at the IBHOF, and while they where just playing around it did give a little insight on how this fight may have unfolded. Eder would come in behind his high guard and jab his way in, and once inside he would go to the body on the taller Nicaraguan. Now again, they were just playing around and it wasn`t a real sparring session, but it was interesting to watch nonetheless how Eder got inside on his taller foe. The question is however could he have fought that kind of fight for 15 rounds in his old age? I don`t know but my gut tells me he wouldn`t have been able, so I would favour Alexis to win with the possibility of a late stoppage being a plausible outcome. Now assuming he would have defeated Marcano and Olivares, but lost to Marcel and/or Arguello he would still rank very, very high on my all-time list and should on anyone`s list really. And should he defeat either Marcel/Arguello well his stock skyrockets in my book and he finds himself a niche among the top 5 of all-time. Had he accomplished that at an age where most featherweights are long retired and considered to be dinosaurs by the age of 33, it would be an outstanding achievement.
Great post as per usual RB. I suppose the real difficulty in answering a question like this with anything resembling accuracy is that we don't really know (based on footage) how far Jofre had declined by that time. Seeing the bantam footage of Jofre where he had great stamina, chin, timing and punching ability, I'm tempted to think that THAT Jofre could beat all these guys, but that wasn't the same Jofre who stepped up to featherweight. So the question becomes, for me at least, whether Jofre still had enough to beat these guys. I agree with you that he should be able to beat Marcano but I'm not sure he has enough to beat the others. Marcel would probably be his biggest hurdle stylistically, but Olivares and Arguello will be hard to beat as well. Whilst I have Jofre beating Olivares at bantamweight, I'm not sure he does so at featherweight. The reason for this is that I see Jofre beating Olivares at bantamweight by being able to turn it into a battle of wills, forcing the slightly more fluid Olivares to trade in a high volume fight and busting him up over the distance. I'm not sure he'd have the stamina required to give Ruben the gut check he'd receive at bantam. It's not an issue of Jofre not having the stamina to walk Ruben down, or get close to him and bang away, for Ruben was probably the better of the two in close quarters. Jofre's advantages would lie on the outside where he can get full extension into those long laser beam punches. Stamina will be a factor though in being able to throw at a high enough rate to keep Ruben at the end of his punches and forcing him to react to the pressure of having shots launched at him where he'd have to rely on his own offence to retaliate. The way I'm thinking it will probably be a fight with more clinches and breaks in action which will give Ruben time to recuperate should he need to and the ability to operate comfortably in close proximity to Jofre where his punches won't have the same effect. I think Ruben wins a close fight there, survivng a scare or two along the way. Against Arguello I'm undecided. Alexis was still quite raw when he got outpointed by Marcel and his mechanics hadn't quite synchronised, but he was already at that stage very resilient, and isn't likely to be too phased by Jofre's arsenal. If Jofre is to win, he'll have to outbox Alexis, and this is possible, much in the way you describe, using the jab to offset Arguello and going to the body effectively given his lower centre of gravity. Arguello faded a little in the last rounds against Marcel and if Jofre can effectively go to the body, he might be in with a shot. The height and reach will be pretty big advantages for Arguello here though, and it's questionable whether he can establish a jab consistent enough to work behind for 15 long rounds. Hmmm, perhaps. I'm tempted to say that against the Arguello Marcel fought, Jofre wins a razor thin decision, getting stunned a couple of times along the way. The Arguello that beat Olivares and beyond might be a little too much for him and likely gives him a beating that prompts the ref to stop it in the last couple of rounds in a fairly even bout. If Jofre could have beaten the likes of Marcel, Olivares and Arguello, I agree with you, he would have been a lock for top 5 all time. It's kind of unfortunate that some of these fights didn't happen, for Jofre's legacy could have been enhanced and the fights likely would have been filmed.
I can't really comment too much on this thread, because I've only recently had the opportunity to watch Jofre...But I've enjoyed the insights on it regardless. Jofre was quite an all round fighter.
S_S, You make a very good argument in favour of Olivares and have got me rethinking my stance now. Ruben could still swarm effectively at the higher weight as he showed against Alexis in their go, and should he fight a similar fight against the Brazilian it may well be his ticket to victory. As for the Alexis fight I was pitting him against the one who faced Olivares, not the one who got schooled by Marcel. I would still favour the Arguello who fought Ernesto to win, as what gave him a great deal of dificulty in that fight was Ernesto`s lateral movement. Jofre was never that fleetfooted and at the age he would have been when the fight would have taken place he would have been that much slower of both hand and foot, which could have only favoured his younger foe.
As an aside, i do wonder just how close Jofre vs Legra was. Jose was at the end of the road by that time as well, and if Jofre struggled a lot with him(or was given a gift) it would not bode well for fights with any of these men.
Thats a good point, as Legra had a good set of legs and was a dificult opponent to say the least. I only have his fights against Saldivar, Famechon and Winstone II but can tell from a stylistic standpoint he would have given Jofre a hard time. I`ll contact a few people and see if I can dig up a little more information on that fight, if I do I`ll post whatever I can gather on this thread. On a seperate note, did you see my question to you on the pearls of the orient thread?
It`s at the bottom of page 7, I was interested in your thoughts on Shoji Oguma and Soo Hwan Hong both of who I am sure you have seen a fair bit of footage on. They are two sentimental favourites of mine if you will... they weren`t great fighters per se but I enjoy watching them in action as they sure were fun to watch.
Bo Azine, who was reporting on the fight for Ring Mag seemed to think that Jofre controlled the fight for the most part with his superior technique. Jofre did have to ride through a few tough moments though, like at the end of the third round where he was dumped on the seat of his pants with a right cross, and the 14th round where he was hurt with a right rip to the liver. After he got dropped in the 3rd though, Jofre came back in true Jofre fashion (didn't he always?) and hurt Legra in the 4th (the round Legra had predicted he'd take Jofre out) and from then on to the 14th, Legra ran and held and was getting stalked and outboxed by Jofre. Jofre did win rather comfortably on two cards, (by 5 points a piece), but it would have been great to see the fight for ourselves to judge.