What if Johnson and Jeffries

I still think he woulda probably embarassed him. Johnson was just on a whole new level as far as skillset, AND he had the athleticism necessary to compete against Jeff.

 

yea..that whole grabbing guys behind the head...guys like burns and ketchel, guys who you outweight and outsize,,,and then uppercutting them while holding..yea..amazing skills....

 

I think there is a verry good chance that Jeffries would have won.

Jeffries in his prime was a murderous body puncher, and he aplied pressure proactivley, instead of fighting reactivley. Also, the Hart fight shows that Johnson was by no meanbs unbeatable at this stage.

 

How about prime for prime?

 

I think in 1904/05 Jeff takes it.

A prime for prime matchup would end up beeing an endurance and durability test for both. Johnson is more skilled, especially defensivly, but I give Jeff the edge in durability. Endurance is a toss up. Will give Johnson´s chin in? At his ebst, I doubt it. Neither does Jeffries. It will go on till some one is too tired to continue and somehow I think this will be Johnson, perhaps a bit similar to the Willard fight but much more competative up to that point.

 

Prime for prime,Johnson would still have beaten Jeffries. He was on a different planet,skillwise. It would have obviously been more of a fight though.

 

If all you see in Johnson is his skirting of the rules on the inside then you probably shouldn't think too highly of Ali, Hops, Duran, and countless other people branded as the GOAT.

I think Johnson's outside game would make this a lot less competitive than it seems. JJ had science equivalent or better than Corbett, who also made Jeff suffer in similar fashion...

 

And in how many fights did Johnson fight from the outside? Both fighter were more comfortable in the closer ranges. Yes, when it´s on the outside Johnson is at an advantage. On the other hand Hart gave Johnson problems with making him work a lot and keeping the pressure high. Jeff would do the same. Both fighters are on the same level IMO.

 

I am starting to believe that the Jeffries of the second Corbett and Ruhlin fights tears Johnson up. If Jack had his hands full with Hart, robbed or not, Jeffries who was so much stronger, tougher, harder hitting with terrific stamina, good speed and an iron chin would have been hell for him ...

 

Isnt the Hart fight pretty controversal though, something on the lines of Johnson had to dominate to win?

I don't think Jeffries can win, on the inside Johnson was the stronger and better grappler. On the outside Johnson is more skilled. On Jeffries side is the fact Johnson wouldnt be as big/strong as he would become in time

 

Was Johnson prime when he fought Hart?
I don't think so.

Was Jeffries so much stronger than Johnson?
You base this on what?
Faster than Johnson?
I think not.

Terrific stamina?
Jeffries went 25rds ONCE, against a man 5' 9'' whom he out weighed by 32 lbs.Close fight
Jeffries went 23rds ONCE, against a man 30lbs lighter, who was 8 years older, and he was losing it when the stoppage came.
Jeffries went 20rds 3 times, in one he had a near 28lbs advantage,plus 5 inches in height.Close fight
In another he was 63lbs the heavier man.Draw.
In the other, facing a man near his own size .Draw.

If Jeffries had terrific stamina, how good was the stamina of the men he massively outweighed, most of whom were considerably older too, who went those distances with him?



Johnson went 20rds THIRTEEN TIMES.

Johnson went 20rds with Frank Moran, when he was 36 years old.

Johnson went 26rds with giant Willard when he was 37 ,and was in front at the time of the stoppage.

A better performance than Jeffries own at 35, when he came back for Johnson.

Johnson beat Pat Lester 225lbs 6' 3 1/2'' 21-5-3,when he was 48 years old, the fight went 15 rds to a decision for Jack.
Lester was by no means great ,but two years previously he had beaten Floyd Johnson, and one year previously Bob Roper.
Not bad for a man who was getting on for half a century ,and had lived the life Johnson had.


You base Jeffries chances against Johnson on Johnson's fight with Hart ?
How about basing them on the 20rd ko he gave Sam Mcvey, a man whom Jeffries was offered a large sum to fight, prior to this but declined?

 

Corbett was one month off 37 years old ,and had not fought in 3 years, Jeffries would be hard pushed, not to improve on his previous performance .

Ruhlin was hardly indestructible either ,he had been kod in 1 rd by Sharkey ,and kod in 6 by Fitz the year before Jeffries stopped him . Jeffries did not ko him, Ruhlin's corner stopped the fight between the 5th and 6th rds.

 

I understand but too bad there are no punch stats for those fights because Jack fought at a Hopkins like pace ..he was in his mid 20's when he fought Hart and I believe he was in his prime. He sure was begging for a title shot ...I just see him having fits and fighting a survival fight against a prime Jim.