What if Johnson and Jeffries

Have you read the coverage of the fight from those who were there ? BY ALL accounts it was a very competitive fight. Since you were not there the best you have to go on is the multiple coverages, including papers that gave consistent objective coverage to Johnson as a fighter as he had a history of fights in the Bay area. My point has been why the hell was the great Jack Johnson at 27 in a competitive fight with Marvin Hart at all? There is no denying it was a tough fight and that Johnson could not seriously hurt or stop Hart's foward progress over 20 rounds .. as far as a match up with Burns , styles makes fights.

 

A colloquialisim.

 

Here's an old thread that brings up some coverage on Johnson-Jeanette bouts.

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mattdonnellon posted the following, regarding the Johnson-Jeanette encounter where Johnson was disqualified in round 2; the report has Johnson doing very well up till that point.

JOHNSON BEATS JEANETTE
Negro Champion, However, Was Disqualified on an Alleged Foul
11/25/05-PHILADELPHIA LEDGER
After outclassing Joe Jeanette for a round and a half, Jack Johnson, The
Negro Heavyweight Champion of the World, lost the bout at the National
Athletic Club [Phila.] last night on an alleged foul.
Jeanette, after being thumped in lively fashion in the first round, assumed
a crouching pose in the secondround. He undertook to run in and clinch,
ducking a vicious right hand swing. Johnson ripped a right hand hook up for Jeanette's jaw. The latter dropped to the floor,writhing in apparent agony.
He claimed to have been struck a foul blow.
He was removed to the dressing room and the club physician substantiated
his claim. Johnson was promtly disqualified. Jeanettte professed to be in
great pain and lay in his dressing room in apparent agony. It is understood
that the police proposed to keep Johnson, Jeanette and
the club official under surveillance.
12/02/05

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In Jim Carney's 'Ultimate Tough Guy', Carney says his viewing of the early rounds of Johnson-Jeffries inclined him to think they were matched in upper body strength, with Jeffries stronger in the legs and consequently moving Johnson some.

 

This directly contradicts the statement that Mendoza made ,that Johnson ,after having the worst of the first round , deliberatedly fouled out in the second round to save himself from a hiding .
Or as he put it ,"fouled unpupose".
1905 "Twice he fought Joe Jeannette,the first Johnson lost on a foul, the second was a six round no decision,.However in both fights he displayed superior ability" Randy Roberts," Papa Jack".

 

The" man" ,I use the term loosely, challenged me to a tearup in April, when he comes to the UK ,I accepted.

 

LA Times." Fight Decision A ***** One".
Police Gazette,George Siler, famous referee," It was the opinion of all fair minded witnesses ,that Johnson beat Hart".
W W Naughton " Though Hart's face was prodded into puffiness by Johnson's straight left, he never faltered for an instant,the indifference to punishment ,and great pluck displayed by the White man seemed to discourage the negro.Johnson ,beyond a doubt shows that he lacks that essential fighting qualification ,grit."
An unbiased account if ever there was one
Naughton would probably have awarded the decision to Tex Cobb over Larry Holmes.:rofl

 

Nothing there spells out Johnson was dominate in any way. We're talking Marvin Hart here ... the Rex Layne of his day and Johnson could not dominate in the biggest profile fight in his career .. there's no way to spin it .. it is a huge black eye for Johnson ..

 

I didn't say he was dominant,, but I think the reports might indicate that Johnson was the real winner of the fight regardless of who got the decision.
The way Burns beat Hart ,and the subsequent way Johnson toyed with Burns, leads me to believe Hart was not in Johnson's class.

 

I think prime for prime this is a tough fight for both men and hard to figure which style would prevail.

At 35 yrs of age and with no tune-up fight and losing a hundred lbs Jeffries was the 1st to test the waters of a foolish-ill- prepared comeback...

Johnson dominated but no doubt a prime Jeffries would be a horse of a different color, with that said Johnson still presents some difficulties and I see this being a close fight

...an older Johnson lost to a far less skilled and gifted Willard but that was not a prime Johnson....

Johnson could take a decision but I can also see Jeffries getting to Jack at some point in the fight for a KO, I think both these scenarios are feasible

 

Hey *******, this is just one report. I have read a more detailed posted by Kevin Smith who is an expert on early black prize fighters. His said Jeanette was far the better in round one. And it seems crystal clear that Johnson did in fact go low. CASE CLOSED HERE.

Now I see have insulting mothers. How noble of you Mcvey. What's next wifes? You must beat yours like Jack Johnson did.

Also, are you going to show me where in this thread that I said Johnson vs. McVey were close matches, or are you just going to lie, and hide? Again, what I said is in all of Johnson fights vs. Jeanette ( Green as grass ), McVey ( a teenager ), and Langford ( only 156 pounds ), he only scored 1 Ko.

 

Let's see if a man in his 60's, who claims to have boxed as a welter ( which likely means you about 5'8" tall ) who goes by the name Tony or Anthony shows up. I doubt he will.

 

Case not closed because you said Johnson fouled on purpose, to escape defeat . How you know that is a mystery.
Perhaps you can explain ?

I misread your post about Mcvey, MY MISTAKE Mcvey was 20 years old when Johnson knocked him out.
Johnson scored multiple knockdowns of ALL the three
Langford ,McVey ,and Jeanette, NONE of them put him on the floor

Reports say Johnson 185 carried Langford 156


Weight difference 29lbs


Since you keep harping on the weight difference between Johnson and Langford 29lbs ,would you care to comment on the weight difference in these fights?
Difference
Jeffries 210 Corbett 183 27lbs
Jeffries 206 Fitz 167 39 lbs
Jeffries 212 Armstrong 187 25lbs
Jeffries 220 Griffin 180 40lbs
Jeffries 216 Everett 190 26 lbs
Jeffries 219 Fitz 172 47lbs
Jeffries 218 Corbett 188 30lbs
Jeffries 230 Choynski 167 63lbs
Jefffries 227 Johnson 208 19lbs
Jeffries 218 Ruhlin 200 18lbs
Jeffries 240 Finnegan 180 60lbs
Jeffries 218 Jackson 195 23lbs
Jeffries 215 Sharkey 183 32lbs

In fact, find ONE fight that Jeffries did NOT have a significant weight advantage in.

Never referred to your Mother, the term I used is a grievous insult in my country , which it was meant to be, but has no connection with your parents.
Since you have mentioned your Mother , may I extend my deepest sympathy to her for producing you.

Not married now .
Never hit a woman , but will heartily enjoy hitting you ,so keep safe ,you vacuous vagina.

 

Welter and Middle

Taller.But not by much
Just so you know me
Waist has gone up to 36in. Chest 43 1/2in, reach 72in. Biceps 15 3/4in,smallish hands.eyes hazel . scar on left side of face ,faded now.
Salt and pepper hair, in a close crop.

I will be holding a board with your name on it, ie ****.

 

You guys should really take a break ... a little nuts ... :silly