What if Ken Norton retired after losing to Larry Holmes?

You're absolutely right.

Norton woud've been ranked higher and people wouldn't say he always loses early vs hard hitter.

That two KO1 losses really hurt his legacy even despite he was closer to 40 at that time.

 

Good thread. If Ken had retired under the conditions laid down here,he'd have been around level with Joe Frazier in my rankings of seventies heavyweights - Joint third.


I agree about the Norton fights. Muhammad is my all time favourite boxer but I'd only give him victory in the second bout with Ken.

 

Personally i still don't think he would have made many top 10's.

 

^

Frazier had cleaned out the division going into the FOTC.

Norton just didn't much outside of beating Ali.

 

"The Champions" photo: Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, & Holmes.

Norton "officially" one victory over Ali, (and neither Frazier nor Norton
would fight each other due to supposed friendship). If Norton had 3 or 4 Title defenses outside the Big 4.....his name would be pretty solid.

 

He doesn't really have a good win resume. Good fights with ali, good fight with Young, Witch I think young won, good fight with Holmes, witch he lost, who the hell did he beat?

 

he was a very good fighter though., and a handful for anybody, except a big puncher

 

Norton was never worlds hwt champion so more than likely he never is rated along side Ali, Frazier or Holmes.

I do agree he would have been thought of more highly in general if he retired after his loss to Holmes.

 

Ken would n't make the top 10 for ALL TIME heavies,true. I'd still rate him at number 4 for the 1970s ratings,though. My top 5 for that decade would be -


Ali
Foreman
Frazier
Norton
Holmes



A lot would question why I put him above Holmes but in the criteria of the seventies,Larry arrived at the party late. Obviously I'd place Holmes above Norton for an ALL TIME heavy list.

 

I think Ken would have retired if those Hollywood offers would have came in for big bucks and a prominent movie or two. He was ready to get out then.

Most folks haven't seen the Ledoux fight. Or Cobb. Those bouts leading into the ****ey matchup were a disaster waiting to happen. A spent force. That's how things usually wind up for fighters that stick around a little too long.

But if you look at that 76 list of heavyweight up and comers, you had Dokes/Page/ and probably the fastest guy to develop, Tate. From around 78 you had Thomas/Witherspoon/****ey.

Outside America you had Coetzee and Knoetze and Bruno was in the developmental stages. So Ken got out at the right time and having your hands full with Ledoux and Cobb is about where he had regressed to. He didn't need matchups with the prospects and when he stepped into the ring with Gerry, it was surprising how many people thought he had a legitimate shot to win the fight. But that was based on his 76 Ali fight a lot more than being saved by the bell against Ledoux.

As for the Shavers loss, Earnie had been gunning for him for a long long time. Ken signed the contract when a title shot was at stake & by that time it was too late in his career.

 

Yes, people never give him a pass for those late losses, the way that they do for so many other guys.

 

I don't judge Norton much on anything that happened after the Holmes fight anyway, so my rating of him wouldn't be effected.
I suppose the Shavers loss knocks a little shine of him. But Norton and Shavers were a couple of old guys by then and Shavers probably wanted it more.
I think Norton lost a lot of motivation after the Ali fight in 1976 to be honest.

 

Norton is overrated. Resume was Soft going into Ali fight. And outside of the Ali trilogy who did he really beat. I for one had Holmes up by more than the judges did and many ppl believe Young defeated him. He has Ali, Young (debatable) and a completely washed up Quarry.
Very good heavyweight but top 10 is abusrd. He didn't do enough. He's more like top 30-40.

 

Too right. A prime Norton easily beats Cobb and Le Doux.