Without Liston's intimidation , and Ali's speed, politics and dominance ,how does the heavyweight division from the early 60 s to the 70s play out? Floyd doesn't get wrecked by Liston but how long does he remain champ? Would Cleveland Williams step in to the void? How's it affect Frazier? Foreman?
Would Foreman lose at all without Ali ? Does Frazier gain more historically without the Ali fights? What would the 70 s be Without Muhammad??
Perhaps Heavyweight boxing might not have been as popular and seen in much higher regard historically speaking, especially without Ali. We would have missed out on legendary HW fights such as FOTC, Rumble in the Jungle, Thrilla in Manila. Without Ali and Liston I think Joe Frazier might have been the top HW fighter in the world and on a dominant streak during the 60s and 70s before eventually running into Foreman to be dethroned.
Yes I can see Joe becoming the eras main man, his pressure style thrives in a slower division . He'd have a longer less damaging career. Then of course big George comes along rules longer and more brutal. No Ali to out think him he becomes the most feared heavyweight ever. It could become a bit of a fragmented era eventually with no true great and more belts and fewer legends.
Happy New Year,Fergy. And to all of you. A very different scene ensues,mate. After regaining the title from Johansson ,Floyd stays champ for two or three years until he runs into Joe Frazier. Joe loses to Foreman who holds championship until Larry Holmes fights him. Always a chance that Jimmy Young is a banana skin though.
Happy New year to you too Stevie. Yes that's definitely a possibility With no big bad Sonny Liston about, then Floyd' could hang around a while longer.
People might not have liked Ali's motor mouth and arrogance at the time but he really was the guy that helped popularized HW boxing because of his outspoken personality and anti-war stance. Without Ali boxing really wouldn't have been as impactful worldwide. We would most likely not have the movie Rocky since that was inspired on Chuck Wepner when he fought Ali. Exciting as Frazier was I don't think he alone would have helped carry the sport and his legacy would be as memorable without Ali.
Floyd Patterson probably reigns until the rise of Joe Frazier or Jerry Quarry. Those would be the likely two to derail the Patterson train. But Patterson’s historical standing would rise. Honestly, I think he could beat everyone Ali did from 64-66 excluding Liston, but he doesn't exist in this timeline. Joe Frazier reigns but doesn't have a career defining win like he got in the FOTC. It's not a sure thing Quarry beats Patterson as I believe he won both fights, but say Patterson was champion, Quarry would have been champion after the SD win he got in fight 2. But promptly loses to Frazier or a rematch with Patterson. I think Frazier would be more of a sure bet to dethrone Patterson. But he gets flack for beating an "aging" Patterson and some question if he could have beaten the Patterson of the early 60s. Frazier and Patterson would be the dominant men of the 60s. Patterson early to mid 60s, Frazier in the late 60s to early 70s.
Good question,Fergy. I can well imagine Joe and Ken being thrown together in this scenario as with Muhammad Ali off the scene there would be less glamorous fights on offer.
Patterson has a longer run as the heavyweight champ ,but eventually would get K'oed by surprise to one of the big punchers of the era. Frazier has a longer run, with no " Fight of the Century " , which depleted him. Puts up a better showing against Foreman, but still loses. A confident, Foreman probably doesn't lose with in the 1970''s unless he gets complacent. ( Got to think, without Ali, there probably wouldn't have been a Larry Holmes, Ali was so influential in his life, so in actuality, if there's no Liston or Ali, there's probably no Holmes) Foreman very well could've been the heavyweight champ from 72 to at least 82, until age , wear and tear start creeping in. Conversely, for those same reasons, there wouldn't have been a Foreman comeback, or his winning the championship again in the 90s.
With the 70s people already seem to appreciate how Foreman, Norton, Jimmy Young and Lyle would have run things without Ali. In the 60s we'd view Terrell and Zora Folley very different. Imagine a world where Ernie Terrell is an icon.
