What if Marciano..........

Patterson wouldn't have fought Marciano.
He would have waited until he retired. D'Amato had already said that.

Marciano would have beaten Johansson.
Liston would have probably beaten Rocky in '59 or'60.

 

And Liston would have been 43.

 

What I buy is that Floyd and Cus didn't even attempt to move up in weight until they knew Rocky was gone. Marciano himself was not impressed with Patterson until Floyd actually ascended to the vacated crown over Moore, 14 months after Marciano-Moore. THEY apparently didn't believe they were ready for Rocky.

Number 50 would have preferably been a marquee defense match for Weil, Goldman and Marciano, but what was left out there at HW [before Floyd moved up], after the way Archie had built up his challenge of Rocky? [Ali admitted after his retirement that Moore succeeded in matching wits with him better than any other opponent he faced prior to entering the ring. Archie had been talking trash for decades. It was one of those things that pissed Burley off about him.]

Pastrano could have been interesting. We know how tough Willie was, that he had the legs to run for 15 rounds, would never have attempted to go for the kill like Walcott did, and Rocky didn't close with Dempsey or Frazier type speed. Marciano would have to revert to lightning strike mode, like he did with Matthews and Walcott. Not an exciting match, clearly not a war of attrition, but one with compelling tension, sufficient stress to keep fans on edge. Rocky and Goldman would be aiming to cut off Willie ahead of the scorecards, and everybody watching would be waiting to see if he succeeded.

 

Floyd was still inexperienced and not quite fully matured at 21 years of age. Rocky, though fading, would have still beaten him in my opinion. I don't think Patterson was ready for that sort of attack nor did he have the staying power that it would have required to beat the Rock. I agree with another poster who said that Marciano probably wouldn't have remained undefeated long enough to see the rise of the "sonny". At some point between 1956 - 1959 he would have picked up a loss... Machen, Johannson or even a more developed Floyd would have been candidates.

 

Cus knew well enough to keep Patterson away from Marciano. Floyd would never be able to take what Rocky could dish out for 15 rounds.

Johansson didn't have the stuff either, in my view.

Liston would be interesting, but I'm not sure Rocky would have still had what it took to beat Liston by the time the fight would have happened.

 

too bad Valdes lost to Bob Satterfield because Valdes was set for fight 50 if he had won but Marciano still had enough to KO Floyd and Ingo but not so sure how much longer he could have gone on at age 33-34, running 10-15 miles daily before a fight and needing great great conditioning and training to maintain 15 round relentless stamina and late power ( I get tired thinking about it) There comes a time in a fighters career when he knows its all down hill from here and Marciano to his credit retired 3-5 fights before he slipped. Its inevitable for a fighter to slip and to his credit Marciano was smart enough to stick to his guns, he said if Joe Louis could not do it I am not going to try

Liston had only 11 fight in 1955 had only one fight in 1956 and took off 1957 so he was not even a mention at the time of Marciano's retirement and Patterson had lost to Joey Maxim a year earlier in 1954 and Cus was keeping him clear of Marciano, Floyd lost to Ingo in 1959 and Liston in 1962, surely we cant expect a swarmer to maintain his form for for another 4-7 years with out a loss Frazier started going down hill after the FOTC and this was his 27th fight he beat non-contenders Terry Daniels and then Ron Stander then only won 3 of his next 8 fights

 

I don't think Marciano retired because he knew it was physically time to go.

He left because:

1. He had grown to hate Al Weill. He was convinced Weill was stealing from him.

2. There were not any decent paydays in sight. The best was a Moore rematch and it didn't promise much of a gate.

 

You are completely correct. It was Al Weill and his greed that made Rocky lose his love for the game and there was a lack of a decent payday on the horizon


They were trying to make Valdes look interesting but he was dominated and dropped by Bob Saterfield who was KO'd by Charles in 2


Liston had only 11 fight in 1955 had only one fight in 1956 and took off 1957 so he was not even a mention at the time of Marciano's retirement and Patterson had lost to Joey Maxim a year earlier in 1954 and Cus was keeping him clear of Marciano.

Floyd lost to Ingo in 1959 and Liston in 1962, surely we cant expect a swarmer to maintain his form for for another 4-7 years with out a loss

Frazier started going down hill after the FOTC and this was his 27th fight he beat non-contenders Terry Daniels and then Ron Stander and was stunned in both fights then only won 3 of his next 8 fights.

 

I wouldn't bank on Patterson beating Marciano in `56 or at all really. Unless Rocky slipped a great deal or his back issues popped up during the fight.

Marciano was relentless and he would've eventually broken through and caught Floyd with something solid. Remember Pet Radamacher dropped Patterson and he was in his pro debut. Among others.

I don't think Liston would've been on the scene until 1959 at the earliest. That wouldn't turn out well for Rocky.

 

I don't think so.

His bad back is in evidence and he's probably fortunate he was fighting Archie that night. But Rocky wasn't getting anywhere near as low and was far more upright. The earlier versions got low like a crab and punched up while moving those feet. Not the guy that fought Archie and he jest could not sustain that attack and positioning for any length of time anymore.

I think him standing upright subtracts too much from his assets and he was going to lose in his upcoming bouts. He was no spring chicken and a bad back is a horrible thing for a boxer to try and compensate for. He chose the right time to exit the sport & just how many heavies through the history of the sport can make that claim?

 

Weil really blew it. Marciano was asked about number 50 during the in ring post fight interview after Moore, and Rocky indicated he was really looking forward to rounding off that number. At 50-0, I don't see any way he ever contemplates continuing on or thinking later about a potential comeback.

 

Marciano had a bad back, that or something would have caught up with him as he got older, injuries would have kicked in, he would be slower and he'd get beat badly I think.

Either that or a particularly style would be all wrong, probably Liston, maybe Cleveland Williams or Patterson but maybe not, maybe he goes on until Liston

 

Liston?...nah,...Ali made him

 

Liston?...nah,...Ali made him QUIT while sitting on his stool...no quit in Marciano...Marciano had back troubles...Al Weill problems...he'd been busting his ass since he turned pro...he left before his powers deserted him...you can't go on fighting with a style like he had and stay undefeated...he had beaten the #1 contenders...everyone that they had put in front of him...he was tired of the grind...

 

Ironicaly he would probably have got the 50-0 prety easily, because there was not any particularly strong challenger around at the time. It would likley have been somebody like Pastrano or Jackson. This is the period that we are looking at, for whatever it is worth:


1956 Floyd Patterson, Champion

1. Tommy (Hurricane) Jackson
2. Archie Moore
3. Harold Carter
4. Willie Pastrano
5. Eddie Machen
6. Bob Satterfield
7. Ingemar Johansson
8. Bob Baker
9. Zora Folley
10. Wayne Bethea

1957 Floyd Patterson, Champion

1. Eddie Machen
2. Zora Folley
3. Willie Pastrano
4. Roy Harris
5. Pat McMurtry
6. Nino Valdes
7. Mike DeJohn
8. Wayne Bethea
9. Alex Miteff
10. Ingemar Johansson

1958 Floyd Patterson, Champion

1. Ingemar Johansson
2. Nino Valdes
3. Zora Folley
4. Henry Cooper
5. Willie Pastrano
6. Archie Moore
7. Eddie Machen
8. Brian London
9. Sonny Liston
10. Mike DeJohn

1959 Ingemar Johansson, Champion

1. Zora Folley
2. Floyd Patterson
3. Sonny Liston
4. Henry Cooper
5. Eddie Machen
6. Billy Hunter
7. Roy Harris
8. Mike DeJohn
9. Joe Erskine
10. Alex Miteff

Given Marciano's tendency to pick whoever was ranked most highly as a challenger, we can get a rough idea of his next movments.

There would not have been a clear choice for fight number 50, but Patrano, Jackson and Baker would all have been possibilities.

By fight number 51, Floyd Patterson would have been in the frame, if he chose to take it rather than wait for Marciano to get older.

Either way, Marciano would likley have been on a colision course with Eddie Machen in 1957.

After this Johansen and Valdez would have been likley opponents in 1958.

In 1959 Folley would likley be in the paicture, and the ominous shaddow of Sonny Liston would be looming up large.