What if Marciano..........

I think they all three beat him. He was fading, increasingly injured and tired of the monastic style training it took to get his meager physical assets honed for heavyweight fighting.

 

Nah. he trained his ass off for a comeback but pulled out when he realized his manager was to get half his earnings again...Why are you always on the worng side of right?

 

You are right Weill was a major issue and the back could have been as well because based on the ratings in 1956 there is no way Jackson can beat Marciano, no way Moore who was down 9x vs Marciano can beat him.

Machen,Foley and Ingo did not always show the best of chins or the ability to beat a man of Rocky's level and IMO Patterson would get hit and fold and by then Marciano would have been near 35 and he was smart enough to know his own body

 

No, he pulled out of the comeback because he didn't have the fire anymore. Would you like to see an article of two detailing this?

 

Pre-58 Liston didn't merit a title shot.

'58 Liston may have been in fact the most able challenger, but it would have taken him atleast that year to have established that fact.

 

I don't know what the boxing future held for Marciano. If he was getting tired of the game/Weill and fell financially comfortable, he was right to get out. He did what Jeffries did, and stayed out, like Jeffries should have.

 

Patterson would've gotten smashed.... I love this too fast to this for Marciano... people act like Jo or Maxim were some speed demons.. they weren't. Not only would Cus have avoided Rocky like the pague... if he did get in the ring.. I see patterson getting caught eventually.

 

Thanks for this. Jackson was at the top of those 1956 ratings largely because he pushed Floyd to a 12 rounds SD in the HW title eliminator which got Patterson to the showdown with Moore. It didn't hurt Tommy's case that he SDed Baker twice in 1956, seriously undercutting the value of big Bob's 13 fight winning streak between those bouts. I just don't buy former amateur Patterson wipe-out victim Harold Carter. If Rocky doesn't retire after Moore, that seems to clearly leave the 20 year old Pastrano as the best bet for the next shot. Rocky stopped the Mongoose in September 1955. Willie had taken Maxim back to school three months earlier, and ended 1955 by doing the same to Rex Layne. To me, he seems like the right man for number 50, with Baker as the most viable alternative. Pastrano had some defeats, but he hadn't been dropped or stopped, and may have had the youth and toughness to be seen as able to hang with Marciano, a potential problem for The Grinder.

With Marciano continuing on, Patterson-Moore would have been for Archie's LHW crown. Floyd and Cus could then bid to challenge Rocky, secure in the knowledge of already having the championship at 175 in their possession regardless of a HW challenge outcome with the Rock. More likely though, I think Cus opts to have Patterson accumulate championship experience at 175 while waiting for Marciano to go away. [A 15 round distance experience or two at LHW might have paid priceless long term dividends for Floyd. Lack of experience in the championship rounds cost him dearly against Ellis in 1968, the only time he ever went the 15 round limit. Give him that experience a dozen years earlier, then he's ready to face the final bell against Jimmy with far more confidence, instead of tentatively over-pacing himself in Sweden.

And that's where I believe it most realistically ends, with tough IBC affiliated contender Machen. Eddie could get ambushed and caught cold by a cagily retreating Ingo, but not by a fully vintaged Marciano. By 1957, Eddie was been ready to ascend, while Rocky would have been grinding down. [It still wouldn't have been any kind of picnic for Machen, who I think would have been so depleted against Marciano even in victory that he'd drop the decision in his first defense to Folley.]

 

We seem to be thinking along much the same lines here.

We are both envisioning Machen winning the title in a bit of a shock upset, because it is the scenario with the least problems attached to it.

From there, god knows what direction it takes.

 

Here, I'll paint a more detailed script which you may enjoy dissenting from. [We're all here to have some fun with the idle and rampant speculation over what might have been, are we not?]

Eddie's first match in 1958 was that poor 12 round draw with Folley which most observers seemed to believe Zora won, despite Machen's late draw salvaging rally. With Eddie coming off a grueling dethroning of Marciano, I don't believe there would have been any controversy over 15 rounds of title competition. No, it wouldn't have been any kind of barn burner, but Folley would have decisioned a diminished Machen pretty clearly in this situation. Eddie wouldn't have been able to rally as needed in the championship rounds after what Rocky had put him through.

Then, it's Folley, not Patterson, who Ingo and Liston would have had to dethrone. We know Liston would have succeeded over Zora, but could Johansson have pulled it off right after ambushing Folley rival Machen as he did? My belief is no. Zora had less punch resistance than Eddie, but he was slightly taller and longer armed, and a smarter fighter. Bob Foster, who was shut out by Folley over ten exclaimed, "Zora Folley taught me how to box!" He'd have been hyper vigilant in dealing cautiously with Ingemar immediately after the Machen ambush, and I believe those skills and smarts would have handed Johansson his only career defeat over the distance.

So in my highly speculative scenario, the HW title passes from Marciano to Machen, to Folley, then Liston, while Floyd remains comfortably at 175. At LHW, I believe he dominates with his youth, skills, conditioning and speed as long as he cares to. Does he ever attempt moving up to HW? I think he might attempt a WBA showdown with Terrell, and take a stab at Ali as he did, but I believe he really makes his move at 32 when Ali's forced into exile. With championship distance experience accrued from a long and dominant LHW reign, I believe he succeeds as the WBA alternative to Frazier until Joe gets him in a unification bout.