What if Pacquiao stayed as a lightweight and cleaned out the division?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by unsigned_userv2, Nov 15, 2010.


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  1. unsigned_userv2

    unsigned_userv2 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Say Pacquiao ends his career now, but instead of moving up in weight after he beats David Diaz, he stayed at lightweight and cleaned out the division. Looking back which is the greater achievement? Actual path (Multiple weights) or Alternative path (clean out a division)


    1. Actual path:
    De La Hoya
    Hatton
    Cotto
    Clottey
    Margarito

    or

    2. Alternative path:
    Juan Diaz
    Joel Casamayor
    Edwin Valero
    Michael Katsidis
    Juan Manual Marquez III

    I'd slightly favour the alternative path:
    Casamayor has a style that has troubled Pac in the past, J Diaz was highly rated before he went up to face Malignaggi, and JMM is probably still in his prime and again has a style that Pac usually has trouble with. Valero (RIP) was a one-punch puncher prospect/contender/phenom, and Katsidis has some similarities to Hatton, but with better boxing skills.

    To me the first path has the marketable stars but out of their primes (depending on who you ask), but if he had fought the lightweights in the above time-frame he'd have cleaned out an entire division and leave no doubt he's beaten the best with each fighter close enough to their best.

    The second path doesn't leave as many questions as the first
    i.e. People wouldn't be arguing:
    Why not Margarito in '08 instead of De La Hoya at ww
    Why not Tim Bradley instead of Hatton jr w
    Why not Mosley instead of Cotto full ww
    Why not Berto instead of Clottey ww
    Why not Sergio Marinez instead of Margarito at full jr mid
     
    unsigned_userv2, Nov 15, 2010
    unsigned_userv2, Nov 15, 2010
    #1
  2. unsigned_userv2

    unsigned_userv2 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I guess that's 100% vote for the alternative path :lol:
     
    unsigned_userv2, Nov 15, 2010
    unsigned_userv2, Nov 15, 2010
    #2
  3. SHADOW BOX

    SHADOW BOX SHADOW BOX Full Member

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    At 135 I think Pac would still have trouble with Marquez. A non-drained Pac is just a totally different story.
     
    SHADOW BOX, Nov 15, 2010
    SHADOW BOX, Nov 15, 2010
    #3
  4. Leon

    Leon The Artful Dodger Full Member

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    He would be less popular than he is right now. The thing people need to realize is that it's skills and intelligence that wins fights. Most people just see a bigger man and automatically think it'll be a harder fight than someone of similar size.
     
    Leon, Nov 15, 2010
    Leon, Nov 15, 2010
    #4
  5. gazsteves

    gazsteves New Member Full Member

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    this is such a shite post just somebody trying to look at negatives when there not there hes beat everyone hes had to beat and always fought the best oposition at tht time these lightweights are nobodys mayweather proved tht when he demolished marquez
     
    gazsteves, Nov 15, 2010
    gazsteves, Nov 15, 2010
    #5
  6. cesare-borgia

    cesare-borgia Übermensch in fieri Full Member

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    I still say path 1, it made him a superstar and gives him a higher atg ranking then if he would have choosen path 2, despite the little controversy i have a lot of respect for pacs accomplishments last 2 years.
     
    cesare-borgia, Nov 15, 2010
    cesare-borgia, Nov 15, 2010
    #6
  7. crimson

    crimson Boxing Addict banned

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    And we will have "just another" lineal HoF champ. Which is commendable but not nothing ATG. We all like Pac because he takes fights that he always has a chance of losing. Some are serious chances (Cotto) and some quite less (Clottey). The reality is, there is always a risk involve. That what makes it fun and interesting. Lineal champs are dime a dozen (Hatto, Tszyu, Darc, etc) but multi weight ATGs only happens 1 or twice a decade. Not since Duran have we witness such a climb.
     
    crimson, Nov 15, 2010
    crimson, Nov 15, 2010
    #7
  8. cesare-borgia

    cesare-borgia Übermensch in fieri Full Member

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    pac was already a atg before de la hoya.
     
    cesare-borgia, Nov 15, 2010
    cesare-borgia, Nov 15, 2010
    #8
  9. unsigned_userv2

    unsigned_userv2 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Au contraire my newbie friend. I am actually a fan of Pacquiao, but as a fan I am allowed to be critical at times, just like we can sometimes be critical of our favourite sporting teams, musicians, friends and family and so on.

    However, I am in no way trying to diminish Pac's achievements, the mere fact I said it was almost even comparing cleaning out a division to moving up to higher weight classes, means even if alot of people criticized his opponents for being 'shot' or whatever, it is still a high enough achievement as defeating the best after the best in one division.

    Even if he'd had stopped at lightweight, he'd still be considered an ATG based on:

    • Champion in 5 different weight classes, including being the linear champ in 4 of them.
    • Defeating a further 2 HOF (Casamayor and Marquez) at their ideal weights/closer to their primes
    • Defeat 4 former champions (or 5 if you include Katsidis interim title)


    But just to make it an even playing field I have included one for Mayweather as well, enjoy: http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?p=8209985#post8209985
     
    unsigned_userv2, Nov 16, 2010
    unsigned_userv2, Nov 16, 2010
    #9
  10. Jack Kollin

    Jack Kollin Say my name? Full Member

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    If he follows path 2. He'll be a corrupt politician not enough money on his pocket!
     
    Jack Kollin, Nov 16, 2010
    Jack Kollin, Nov 16, 2010
    #10
  11. PaoloMirani

    PaoloMirani Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Actual path, in hindsight Casamayor, JDiaz et al aren't all that much to talk about. And at 135 Pac was still draining himself according to Roach...
     
    PaoloMirani, Nov 16, 2010
    PaoloMirani, Nov 16, 2010
    #11
  12. puga_ni_nana

    puga_ni_nana Dempsey Roll Full Member

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    pac would be at least $50M dollars poorer and at least 30 spots down in his current ATG list ranking.
     
    puga_ni_nana, Nov 16, 2010
    puga_ni_nana, Nov 16, 2010
    #12
  13. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    Quite easily the path he's taken. The arguments against his not doing anything but picking up a trinket at lightweight pretty much were made absolutely irrelevant around the time Hatton went to sleep at light welterweight really.
     
    Boxed Ears, Nov 16, 2010
    Boxed Ears, Nov 16, 2010
    #13
  14. bambamz

    bambamz Active Member Full Member

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    im sorry but no, hed be less popular if he took your "alternative route"
     
    bambamz, Nov 16, 2010
    bambamz, Nov 16, 2010
    #14
  15. FORMIDABLE

    FORMIDABLE Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    If he did that his critics would be slaying him for not challenging himself at 140-147

    Either way, he cops hate.

    The route he took pummelling great fighters bigger than him has propelled him in ATG top 10/G.O.A.T. consideration. In 30-50 years guys like Baby Bull, Guzman, Valero, Casamayor, Campbell, Katsidis will be a blip in the boxing anals. Don't think Roach or anyone in Team Pac is losing sleep having not fought them.
     
    FORMIDABLE, Nov 16, 2010
    FORMIDABLE, Nov 16, 2010
    #15
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