What if Ring Magazine rankings had existed during Jack Johnsons career?

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Checking the records is exactly what i am doing.

Just so that you and Suzy understand the system i am using, this is a purely results based system based not on who beats who, but who beat who. NDs or Newspaper Decisions are draws. DQ wins or Injury wins count. Official verdicts only, Boxrec and CBZ are the records used.

If a fighter wants to improve their ranking they have to beat higher ranked fighters. If a fighter loses a fight it means little as they only slip down one spot. If a fighter wins, they move up to the spot of the fighter they beat and everyone else moves down one spot. I have no idea whether half these fighters are black or white, and it does not matter.

If what you guys were saying was true about Blacks dominating white, then by now, the blacks would be up the top and dominating because they wouldnt lose to the best whites. Johnson, Langford, McVey, Jeanette, Wills etc have held high spots, but have either lost to key opponents or had guys with higher spots lose to key fighters.

It is worth noting that many of the best fighters rarely lost fights and when they did (after peaking) the fighters that beat them rarely lost any fights. This happened to guys like Johnson, Burns, O Brien, Fitzsimmons, Ruhlin, etc. I am not so sure why the guys that beat some of the others like Langford and others seem to not be that good and lose to a wider range of fighters. Maybe it is because fights are being reported better, maybe there is a drop in class at the top end, who knows. In fact maybe the good old tank even plays a role.

Anyway, the bottom line is that you may not like where certain fighters are, and in the case of Wills in particular (though not necessarilly others) it may not be a great indicator for that year, there is no bias in the rankings. And maybe, just maybe, Wills was doing a bit of a Vitali Klitchsko by winning fights but not proving himself against the best of the best.

 

These lists certainly show what an odd kind of career Jess Willard had.

After a middling debut year, Willard goes on a tear in 1912-3 winning several fights, mostly by knockout, but then runs into the comebacking Gunboat and drops a decision. Goes on another run then gets firmly outboxed by Tim McMahon, and doesn't fight for a whole year before Johnson decides to pick him.

Of all people, I'm actually getting a bit of a Lou Savarese vibe to his career path. Except if Savarese had punched out Holyfield for the title in 2000.

If Johnson hadn't made the call, Willard could just have easily called it a day with boxing and done something else. After the sound loss to McMahon and not fighting in twelve months it's easy to believe he wasn't on anyone's radar for worthy ranked opponents, and would've been seen as another case of someone that knocked over a few guys but couldn't deal with the better opposition.

I've never actually asked, why did Johnson pick Willard?

 

1922
1 Jack Dempsey – No Fights
2 Johnson – No Fights
3 George Godfrey – W Thompson & Others
4 Johnny Thompson – W Tate & Others L Godfrey
5 Sam Langford – W Bearcat Wright, Tate, Simmons & Others
6 Bill Tate – W Wills D Wills L Thompson, Langford
7 Harry Wills – W Langford, Norfolk, Tate & others L Tate
8 Billy Miske – W Burke, Roper, Fulton & Others
9 Martin Burke –,W Winert& Others L Shade, Smith, Miske
10 Fred Fulton –W Roper, Morris & Others L Miske & Burke
11 Tiger Flowers – W Carbone
12 Frank Carbone – W Clickner L Flowers
13 Glen Clickner – W Wiggins, Montgomery L Smith, Carbone
14 Sully Montgomery – W Morris & Others
15 Carl Morris – W Flynn, Jackson, L Roper, Montgomery, Fulton
16 Tut Jackson – W Smith L Wills, Morris, Langford, Tate
17 Jeff Smith – W Roper, Burke, Turner, Keiser L Jackson
18 Tommy Gibbons – W Foley & Others L Greb, Miske
19 Harry foley – W Wiggins Weinert & others L T Gibbons
20 Charlie Weinert – L Foley, Tunney
21 Harry Greb – W Smith, Gibbons, Tunney, Roper ND Loughran & Others
22 Bartley Madden – D Fulton, W Ireland & Others
23 Pat McCarthy – W Roper & others L Gibbons, Smith
24 Bob Roper – L Miske, McCarthy, Fulton, Smith, Greb
25 Chuck Wiggins – W J Moran & Others L Foley, Clickner, Tunney
26 Gene Tunney – W Weinert & Others
27 Tommy Loughran – W Darcy, Fisher ND Greb, Tunney

Ouch, I can hear Suzy Q screaming already. Wills loses to Tate! Dempsey didn’t have any defences this year, but this surely couldn’t have helped. What were the reasons for the foul out, anyone know? And why the drawn fight?
Good to see Langford and the underated Thompson back in the rankings. I never realised it before, but Thompson will go on to lose to Jack Johnson next year, which gives Johnson another top 10 victim in his comeback. At this stage, even given his age, Wills or Dempsey both should have matched him. Godfreys big win over Thompson

comes off the back of a series of Johnson exhibitions. I would love to know how those went down.
It is great to see Langford back in the ratings. He isn’t at his best, but he is still winning and beating good fighters.

I don’t know what it means about standards, but a sick Miske has put together his best win sequence, and is starting to clean out at least the lower top 10 of the division. I really think that the top 10 is starting to look pretty much the way it should, at the moment.

Tut Jackson was looking impressive, until he had to step up in class.

Tough schedule for Tommy Loughran, he had a ND with Greb and Tunney!

Carl Morris is really battling on hard it looks like he will go out with most of his career being in the top 10. An underated big man.

 

Wills-Tate, the referee ordered a break and stepped in to push them apart. Wills whacked Tate in the jaw and knocked him out, and the ref called the foul stoppage. Not a popular call.

No idea bout the rematch. I'll have a Google hunt.

 

1923
1 Jack Dempsey – W Gibbons, Firpo
2 Johnson – W Farmer Lodge, Thompson
3 Ted Jamieson – ND Delaney, smith W Renault
4 Jack Renault - W Godfrey, Fulton, Burke, Cowler & Others l
5 George Godfrey – W Tate & Others
6 Harry Wills – W Homer Smith, Thompson
7 Jack Thompson – L Johnson & Wills
8 Sam Langford – W Savage, Flynn, Wright & Others
9 Bill Tate – W Cowler & Others L Godfrey
10 Billy Miske – W Foley, Brennan then Retired
11 Luis Angel Firpo – W Brennan, Willard, Weinert & Others L Dempsey
12 Charle Weinert – W Burke, Wiggins L Tunney, Firpo
13 Jimmy Delaney – W Burke & others ND Wiggins & Others
14 Martin Burke – W Wiggins& others L Weinert, Delaney
15 Fred Fulton – W Farmer Lodge, L Jack Renault
16 Kid Norfolk – W Siki, Jackson & Others
17 Jim Flynn – W Flowers L Langford
18 Tiger Flowers – w Lawson, Kid & Others L Norfolk, Flynn
19 Frank Carbone – W Stribling, Darcy &Others
20 Tiny Jim Herman – W McCarthy, Reich & Others L Renault
21 Jack McCarthy W ClicknerL Herman
22 Nick Newman W Clickner
23 Glen Clickner – w L Delaney, Newman, McCarthy
24 Sully Montgomery – W Flynn, McCarthy & Others
25 John Lester Johnson – W Tut Jackson & others L Jamaica kid (pre rankings)
26 Tut Jackson –W Jamaica Kid, Young Peter Jackson & Others L Flowers, Norfolk, JL Johnson
27 Jeff Smith – W Wiggins, ND Loughran & Others
28 Tommy Gibbons – W Wiggins & others L Dempsey
29 Young Stibling – W Darcy & Others L Carbone
30 Happy Howard – W Foley & Others L Stribling
31 Harry foley –L Miske, Howard

32 Gene Tunney – W Greb & Others
33 Harry Greb – L Tunney, Loughran
34 Tommy Loughran W Greb & Others L Greb


So, Jack Johnson fights and beats yet another top 10 contender. He really has been robbed more than anyone of a fight with Willard and Dempsey. I wonder how his exhibitions with George Godfrey went?

Jack Renault makes a surprise appearance in the top 10. Again, I am sure Suzy and others wont like this and will talk of dives and other talk, but a win is a win, and Renault seems to have been on a pretty good run. Shame about the DQ loss to Jamieson.

And just to provoke Wills’ fans, it seems that in 1923, Wills did no more than Ted Jamieson with his wins doesn’t it? So he isn’t necessarily the standout challenger we all remember.

A good effort by Fireman Jim Flynn to get back on the rankings list. He is well past his best, and it took an injury, but he was definitely a decent journeyman fighter who did have some good wins in his career!
I am amazed at how low Tunney, Greb and Loughran seem to be, although they would be higher if iwas allowing for Newspaper decisions.

 

The lack of respect Harry Wills is getting is preposterous. He should be # 1 in every list you have made. Wills defeated the 3 great ATG black murders row heavyweights no one wanted to fight(Sam McVea, Joe Jeanette, and Sam Langford)..and he did so multiple times. These were the 3 leading contenders in the division in the mid teens. Then when the white hopes had the balls to face Wills(fulton, firpo, weinhart)...he dismantled and destroyed them.

The fact you had Harry Wills at 49th in the 1919 list is laughable beyong belief. Really? 49th? LOL

 

1924
1 Jack Dempsey – NO Fights
2 Johnson – W Homer Smith
3 Tiger Flowers – W Tut Jackson, Kid & Others
4 Young Stribling – W Fitzsimmons & Others L Slattery
5 Young Bob fitzsimmons – W Jamieson, Burke & OthersL Young Stribling
6 Tommy Gibons – W Jamieson, Norfolk ND Carpentier
7 Ted Jamieson – L Flowers, Fitzsimmons, Gibbons
8 Quentin Romero Rojas – W sharkey, Montgomery Renault
9 Jack Renault - W Roper, Godfrey & others L Rojas
10 Battling Owens – W Siki, Jackson
11 Billy Prestage – W Townsend
12 Jack Townsend – W Godfrey L Flowers, Prestage
13 George Godfrey – L Cowler, Townsend & Renault
14 Harry Wills – W Madden ND Firpo
15 Jack Thompson – L godfrey
16 Sam Langford – W Flynn, Barry L Trembley
17 Eddie Trembley W Lanford & Others L Langford
18 Bill Tate – W Bennett, Casanova
19 Luis Angel Firpo – W Lodge, Reich ND Wills, Weinert
20 Charle Weinert – ND Rojas, Firpo, Sharkey
21 Jimmy Duffy – W Wells & Others
22 Burmendy Billy Wells – L Jimmy Duffy
23 Bob Sage – W Colima & others
24 Burt Colima – W Delaney & Others LWells, Sage
25 Bob Huffman – Delaney, Roper & Others
26 Harry Greb – W Delaney & Others ND tunney, loughran & Others
27 Jimmy Delaney – Colima Huffman, Greb
28 Gene tunney W Burke, Carpentier, Foley
29 Tiny Herman – W Burke & Others L Fulton, Gibbons
30 Martin Burke – Delaney, tunney, Herman
31 Tony Fuent – W Fulton & Others
32 Fred Fulton – W herman & Others L Fuente
33 Bob Lawson – W Norfolk & Others L Flowers
34 Kid Norfolk – W Greb & Others L Gibbons
35 Jim Flynn – L Langford
36 Paul Berlenbach - W Carbone & othersL Delaney, D Stribling
37 Frank Carbone – L Berlenbach, then retired

Renault is continuing a huge run. He beat Godfrey a second time! It seems he may be quite underated today.
It doesn’t show on the rankings, but Tunney has actually beat some solid heavyweight type contenders this year, with Burke, Carpentier and Foley. When added to his long list of Newspaper decisions, he is probably a little underated in the unlimited weight class, although many of the best fighters (below the top 10) really are light heavys and middles still.

 

You really are struggling to understand the concept arent you.

I cannot possibly artificially make Wills higher, because i like the fighters that he beat. If he didnt beat them, he didnt beat them.

The cold hard facts are that Wills has either lost to all fighters who are above him, or has lost to someone else who has lost to those fighters. Was Wills better than his rankings indicate? Of course he was, but if you dont beat the fighters, i dont believe you deserve the rankings. Does this mean that the rankings will be skewed, particularly where there are bad decisions, DQs or injuries, of course it does, but for the most part they are reaasonable. In fact, if you look at most of the guys who win fights over ranked fighters, they will usually follow this with matches against other fighters who are similarly ranked, so this must have been roughly the system which was used. Wills himself, has entrenched himself in the top 10 others are struggling to do this.

 

1925
1 Jack Dempsey – No Fights
2 Johnson – No Fights
3 Paul Berlenbach – W Delaney, Siki, McTigue & Others L
4 Jack Delaney W Flowers & Others L Berlenbach
5 Tiger Flowers – W Bogash L Delaney, Bogash
6 Lou Bogash – W Flowers & Others L Flowers X3
7 Young Stribling – W Delaney, Loughran, Rojas & Others
8 Jimmy Delaney – W Fitzsimmons, Texas Tate & others L stribling
9 Young Bob fitzsimmons – W O Dowd & Others L Delaney
10 Gene tunney – W Gibbons, Madden & others ND Greb, Risko
11 Tommy Gibbons – W Burke, Herman L Tunney then retired
12 Ted Jamieson – L Stibling then Retired
13 Jack Sharkey – W Maloney Risko, Soloman Renault & Others L Gorman, Weinert(pre ranking)
14 Jim Maloney - W Rojas, Soloman Y others L Sharkey
15 Al rood – W Stoessel, Seifert L Young bob Fitzsimmons, Carter
16 Eddie Huffman – W De Mave & Others L Stribling
17 Bud Gorman W Sharkey, Lawson, & Others ND Stribling
18 Jack Demave - L Gorman, Sharkey, Hufman
19 George Cook W Soloman & others
20 Yale Okun – w Lawson & others L rood
21 Bob Lawson – W Anderson, Langford & others L Okun, Gorman, Cook
22 Lee Anderson – W Carter, Siki L Flowers, Rood
23 Carl Carter – L De Mave, Anderson
24 Ed Keeley – W Cook, L Gorman
25 Sandy Seifert – W Carter & others L Rood
26 George Godfrey – L Jackson, Renault, Fulton, Burke, owens & others
27 Jack Renault - W Stoesel, Roper, Smith, Risko L Sharkey, Godfrey
28 Joe Stoessel -L Rood, Keeley, Seifert
29 Harry Greb – W Rojas, Walker & Others
30 Emosi King Soloman – W Rojas L Berlanbach, Maloney, Cook, Loughran, Sharkey
31 Quentin Romero Rojas – Maloney, Stoessel, Greb, Stribling,Soloman, Fitzsimmons
32 Clem Johnson – W owens L Carter
33 Battling Owens – L Clem Johnson, Godfrey then retired
34 Roy Mitchell – W Jack Ward
33 Jack Ward – W Prestage L mitchell
34 Billy Prestage – W McKenna, Smith L Jack Ward
35 Harry Person – W Townsend, Pieterson
36 Jack Townsend –W Johnson & others L Person
37 Harry Wills – W Weinert, Johnson
38 Neil Clisby – W Thompson & others
39 Jack Thompson – L W tobin L clisby
40 Chuck Wiggins W Risko & Others D Flowers
41 Johny Risko – L Renault Wiggins, Sharkey ND Stribling & Others
42 Battling Gahee – W Langford L Lawson, Risko
43 Sam Langford – D Sullivan L Battling Gahee


Ouch, the lack of form of Quentin Romero Rojas is going to have SuzyQ rioting. I shudder to think where poor old Harry wills is going to be ranked. 37th.

There really is a changingof the guard going on now, which is evident to say. The top 2 have become inactive and are ripe for the picking. Experienced top 10ers like Wills are not fighting as often, and those like Langford, and several others are pretty much ready for retirement. Some of the younger heavys like Godfrey, Sharkey, Lawson, Gorman and others look like they are starting to make a move. If I am not mistaken, the young contenders seem to be getting bigger too. But we will see how the middles and light heavyies hang on .

 

1. "Why did Harry Wills duck Jack Johnson"--He didn't. A fight was signed for Wills to meet Johnson in Jersey City. This is from UNFORGIVIVABLE BLACKNESS by Geoffrey C Ward, page 420:

"The chairman of the New Jersey boxing commission wouldn't allow the Jersey City fight with Harry Wills to go forward. 'The commissioners are in office to promote and protect the boxing game in the state,' he said, 'and we believe the appearance of Johnson in a contest there would be derogatory to the sport."

Johnson could also not be licensed in New York because he was past their legal age limit at the time of 37 years.

2. "Wills ducked Tunney also"--Well, frankly, I don't care if he did in 1925 or 1926. By that time he had earned a shot at Dempsey and was getting old. But it should be noted that Wills' manager said publicly that the fight with Tunney was offered only on the condition that Wills take a dive.

This is Tex Rickard from the New York Times, Sept 26, 1926, advocating Paddy Mullins be banned from boxing while explaining why Wills will never be given a shot at the title.

"'We don't want men like Wills' manager in boxing,' said Rickard. 'There is no room for such in boxing. He tried to say that he was offered a bout with Tunney last year only on the condition that Wills lay down. I know I never discussed such a thing with him and I know also that neither Tunney or Gibson ever made any such suggestion.'"

3. "Why did Jack Johnson not have any trouble beating a top ten ranked opponent?"

I don't think he did. These rankings are probably not accurate. I think the two men you are talking about are Tom Cowler and Bob Roper. Here's Cowler's ko defeats in the years leading up to and right after the Johnson defeat:

1916--ko'd by Jack Dillion in 2

1917--ko'd by Fred Fulton in 1
--ko'd by Frank Moran in 4
--ko'd by Kid Norfolk in 8

1918--ko'd by Fred Fulton in 5
--ko'd by Billy Miske in 7

1919--ko'd by Billy Miske in 4
--ko'd by Jack Johnson in 15

1920--ko'd by Fred Fulton in 3
--ko'd by Guardsman Charlie Penwill in 9

I would submit that a man who is stopped 10 times in 5 years might not in fact be a top ten fighter. And this does not include all kinds of other defeats in ND fights. Even is I agree he was top ten, it is obvious several other fighters did better with him than Johnson. Beating Cowler perhaps proves an aging Johnson still has enough skill and stamina to handle second-tier fighters. It hardly proves he was still a top man.

As for Roper, I have no idea why anyone would consider him a top ten contender in 1919. His one win that I can see which amounts to something was over Bob Devere, who hadn't won in over two years. Roper was a lifetime trial-horse type.

 

Boilmaker,


According to Chuck Hasson, he personally told me Godfrey was on the cuffs against Jack Renault. Described the losses as "Smellers".

 

I never knew this. It explains an awful lot, particularly with regards to Wills but also other better contenders who didnt fight Johnson at the time.

Obviously there was more to it than just racism or ducking by individual fighters. Obviously, the American powers that be didnt want Johnson champion again. He beat them once, but without youth on his side (and probably desire) he didnt get a second chance. During this second reign, it seems johnson was fighting more than just the colour line that the others of his time were against. Actually, with hindsight, it really does make sense why the Wills Dempsey fight was cancelled, doesnt it. For whatever reasons, this post Willard era to Louis was probably the most racist in history.

I was only responding to constant ducking questions. I should indicate that while i would have liked to see Wills fight Tunney, I do agree that he should have got a shot at the title. In fact the time the fight was scheduled, seems to have been the perfect time for such a fight, although like others I wouldnt personally argue if it was earlier. I dont think the duckin is as blatant as people are making out. Though he was the longest running contender and probably also the best (I am not eally disagreeing with this despite what these rankings say).

I will have to look through the rankings i posted to see who the two fighters that were ranked when Johnson beat them were. From memory, one wasnt Tom Cowler, as i recall Janitor or someone posting earlier in the thread that he was top 10 and i expected him to be the only top 10 fighter from post Willard, but his claim never eventuated. Still, one should be careful about discarding a fighter for being KOd. Wills seemed to deserve a high ranking in most peoples rankings, despite recently being kod by Langford!

Another was Bob Roper, i can recall that. You say he is a journeyman. You are probably correct. He had wins over the likes of Gunboat Smith, Carl Morris, Frank Moran and he went the distance with Greb multiple times. He also has a draw with Fulton. I am unaware of any point in time, where any top 10 hasnt included at least one (usually more) Journeymen. Why not Roper?

He also beat Johnny Thompson, who beat the man (Bill Tate) that had just beaten Harry Wills! Now, I know there are probably legitimate excuses for the Wills Tate fight, but underwhat fair rankings system would a former champion hold such a win and not be ranked highter than Harry Wills?

I think there was one other name who made it into the top 10 prior to this also, from memory i hadnt heard of it ever suggested previously that they were top 10 fighters.

And guys like Farmer Lodge and Homer Smith, who i had never considered ever as anything, were probably also considered journeymen. They had their share of NDs with good world class opponents. To be honest they are no worse than the Dominick Guinns or possibly even Monte Barretts of today. They may have been top 10 fighters in todays multiple sanctioning body days. And wins over them by former champions (without loss) would definitely make Johnson a no 1 contender in todays environment.

 

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TUNNEY SPURNS GODFREY MATCH

"plans for a battle between geney tunney, former american lightheavyweight champion, and george godfrey, negro heavyweight, as the feature attraction on the annuel christmas boxing carnival in madison square garden on dec 18, today were abandoned. it was announced by the officials of the fund. billy gibson manager of gene tunney declinded the prooffered match. according the the fund officials, gibson asserted harry wills is the only negro heavyweight tunney will box." - Los Angeles times nov. 4 1925





EASTERN SNAPSHOTS by W. Rollo Wilson

Nov.12, 1925-The Baron of Leiperville is home again with wonderous tales of the mighty deeds of the "Shadow" along the gilded slope. The "Shadow" is just another way of denoting Gorger George Godfrey, Jimmy's (Dougherty) outsize white elephant. For white elephant George seems now to be. Nobody wants to fight him for love or money. Mr. Wills unostentatiously draws the color line. Mr. Tunney is more blatant in his announcement to the same effect. "I'll fight Harry Wills," broadcasts James Joseph, "but I draw the color line on George Godfrey."

Two things may be on the mind of the Apollo of Greenwich Village, Perhaps he thinks that one "shot" with Wills would give him enough of the filthy lucre for his future earthly needs. Win or lose he would be "in." Fighting Ole Black Lightning [Godfrey] would be a case of all to lose and nothing to gain, he probably thinks. At this time Billy Gibson and Tunney are saying that the Big Three of Boxing are Dempsey, Wills, and the modest Gene. Godfrey would fain make it a foursome, but you can be jolly well sure that the triumvira will continue to say him nay.

One of the first acts of [Dougherty] on his arrival was to release another challenge in the general direction of the above-mentioned Big Three. His latest offer is this:

All any promoter has to do is get Harry, Gene or Jack to sign the papers and pay them whatever they want. Godfrey will come in without asking for a dollar. The aftermath will provide the Dougherty clan with all they will want, because they feel that George can take any of the three.

As is well known Dougherty and Dempsey are the best of friends. Last summer a year ago (1924) Dempsey visited the baronial halls (Leiperville). While here the subject of a bout with George was broached. Jack declared that if he fought at all he would fight Wills, but not Godfrey. Jimmy pressed him for the reason and he said : "Godfrey is a big strong fellow and is young, Wills is getting older and I think he will be the easier man of the two. That is the reason I prefer to fight him, if I fight." - ROLLO WILSON was often referred to as "The dean of the Black Press"





"Tunney wanted nothing to do with Godfrey--plain and simple--too tough a fight. Godfrey is vastly under-rated. His record and career are somewhat mired in mystery. So many DQ's, knockouts and damn mystifying losses. I have no doubt, for instance, that he had the cuffs on against Sharkey. The high number of DQ's has more to do with him fighting to order than it does with him being sloppy. Tunney could outbox most heavies and I don't doubt that he could outbox George Godfrey for 5 or six or even ten rounds. However, George was fast for his size, was adept at chasing men down and could hit like a team of mules. If this were a fifteen round fight, I see Godfrey having a hell of chance catching up to Gene. Remember that Tunney's heavyweight resume is not that long or overly impressive. His two best wins were against Dempsey--over 10 rounds--and it is probable that Jack was past it then. Godfrey handled Larry Gaines fairly easily and Gaines was a boxer in both the mold and style of Tunney. Gaines stated that he feared only two men in his life, his father and George Godfrey. George was a beast--big, athletic, huge puncher and surprisingly good speed and movement for a man his size. I think in his prime, 1925-1931, he was about as good as it got. Nobody really wanted to fight George, and for good reason. Tunney avoided him like the plague. In his prime, with no handcuffs, and this is strictly my opinion, I think he could have beaten, Tunney, Sharkey, Carnera and maybe even Dempsey(certainly a post 1926 Dempsey)."- Boxing historian Kevin Smith





"Not only did Tunney duck Godfrey but so did Dempsey and Wills. From late 1923 Baron (James) Dougherty issued challenges almost daily for Wills to take on Godfrey, who was Philadelphia's greatest drawing card. Promoters Herman Taylor and Bobby Gunnis figured such a match in Phila would do between $250 K to $500 K. and the winner would be the "logical challenger" for Dempsey. Dougherty offered all kinds of perks to Wills including that Godfrey would take the match for $ 1. I think Godfrey was the most handcuffed fighter of all time. When we interviewed Dougherty's son Howard, who was also a promoter and drove Godfrey across country for his campaign in California, He talked of all the concessions they had to make in order for Godfrey to meet high rated fighters including carrying opponents, fouling out, etc. His loss to Risko was a case in point as some fair eyewitness scribes have noted that Godfrey easily handled Risko for the first eight rounds at Ebbetts Field then Risko made a courageous stand in the last two rounds and they awarded him the decision.It was widely understood in Philly that Godfrey agreed to "carry" Risko, that his first two matches with Renault were "smellers" and his "foul-outs" were "ordered." Today People don't realize that one leading black challenger (Wills) was tolerated because of his "good name" with the New York commission but two top black challengers were frowned on. Godfrey and his management (Dougherty) tried to alleviate the situation by attempting to lure Wills into the ring by any means, but of course Wills and Paddy Mullins were not about to risk their position that they earned by taking on young, and very dangerous opponent like Godfrey. I still believe Godfrey was the most "handcuffed" boxer of all time. Being the "most handcuffed boxer of all time" (my opinion) doesn't mean that he was the best of his period, just the "most feared" with the cuffs off. By the way check out photos of Godfrey pre 1926 before his frustrations caused him to gain weight. His body was ripped with muscle and he was always in top condition."- Chuck Hasson Boxing Historian and owner of Phillyboxing.com

 

Here is what Baron Dougherty is quoted about Godfrey's early career (Chester Times 8/15/47- after Godfrey died) :
"George was born down in Mobile, Alabama but left there when he was young and eventually found his way to Chicago. There he learned to box under old Sam Langford. Langford, one of the greatest old fighters, took him through the south giving exhibitions.
"Just about that time Jack Johnson, the former champion, was looking for a sparring partner for vaudeville exhibitions. He was thinking about making a comeback. He picked up George and they toured the country. While the were in Atlantic City, Johnson drove up to see me.
"Jimmy, he said, I engaged this boy but he is too fast and clever for me to make a good showing. I've got to get rid of him and get a bigger, slower man. He's a great boxer. I think you can make him champion. I'll sell you his contract for $1,000.........."then Rickard offered Wills $50,000. to fight Godfrey in Madison Square Garden. Paddy Mullen, Wills' manager, refused because he felt that Kearns and I were too close and that we were trying to "kill" Wills as an opponent for Dempsey..............."After that I toured all over with George. He never had to exert himself. HE WAS NEVER KNOCKED DOWN. In most of his matches he had to carry the fellows for a couple of rounds. We couldn't get the topnotchers to fight...............GODFREY WAS NEVER KNOCKED DOWN [when Dougherty had him], he was never on the floor."


11/1/1943 – Long Beach Independent
“Godfrey, like all oldtimers believes that the present day fighters are not as good as the boys a few years back. “Today they use bigger gloves and mouthpieces and other forms of protection that oldtimers scorned,” Godfrey said. “I think they were tougher in the old days. The present day fighter would not take the punishment that was dished out by the oldtimers.”

Godfrey says the hardest hitter he ever met was Sam Langford, but the greatest fighter of all time, the one that would take any of the fighters of today, is Jack Johnson. “He was the greatest defensive counter-puncher there ever was,” Godfrey said reverently.

Incidentally, Godfrey says he does not go to fights any more and he would not advise anyone to be a professional fighter. “If I had a son, I wouldn’t let him go near a boxing ring. There’s better ways of making a living,” the uncrowned champ vows.”