What if Robinson HAD fought the black murderers row of his day?

It depends entirley upon when the fights were made. The first time they tried to make Burley-Robinson, neither one was at peak and it's probably a 50/50, reflected in the press of that time (nobody could decide). The second time, Burley was at peak and Robinson was approaching his, again this would have been at WW and I would have made Burley favourite.

There was talk after that, but nothing firm. To be clear, Robinson truly ducked Burley in my opinion.

Basically these two could have gone 2/3 either way. Rumour has it that Burley was offered a three fight series if he would ditch the first one. He refused (consistant with his general principles). But who knows.

So my short answer would be "no", he can't go unbeaten against these men. If Robinson takes on any one of Burley, Chase, Williams, Bivins, Hogue, Cocoa Kid in a series of 6 like he did with LaMotta he would lose more than the one he dropped to Jake.

However, in a series of 6 I would expect Robinson to dominat all of these men with the possible exception of Burley. All results are possible between Burley and Robinson in my opinion, including a NC, which confuses matters.

 

As to his place in history - Robinson was the better of all these men in an "all in" sense. Fighting them, would have made him all the greater, in spite of the loses.

 

Burley was a natural for the Welterweight division, and it must be remembered that in the film he is taking on Smith, who was supposedly one of the hardest punchers in the world p4p and was a serious LHW conteneder. WW v LHW. Charley made the neccesary adaptions when taking on larger men, one of these adaptions was slowing the action down to a crawl. He was perfectly capable of throwing combinations and even pressure fighting under the right circumstances.

Basically, judging him for strategy of the back of the Billy Smith footage is not sensible.

I also respectfully suggest that Sugar trying to keep Charley on the end of his jab would be poor strategy for Ray. Charley was a sharpshooter with a freakish 75" reach.

 

Between 1939 and 1941, Burley was rated in the top five WW's. In 42, and between 44 and 46, Burley was rated as at least the third best MW, not his natural division. In that time he beat future champions for two divisions and ranked contenders in three divisions.

Joe Louis to Burley: You are the greatest fighter I have ever seen

Archie Moore: Burley could have beaten Ray in Ray's best time.

Daily Times: I can assure you debators (boxing people in May 1942 were not nearly as sure as you - in fact people were split 50/50 ish) that you are talking about two of the best fighters at any weight.

Star Journal: Robinson perhaps would draw the nod if the fight were for ten rounds, outboxing Burley to a decision. If the fight were...(over the) 15 round distance, Burley, because he is more enduring, would pull out the decision. (I actually disagree with quite a bit of this analysis, but that is not the point. The point is that the press men who regulary saw both fighters fight were hugely conflicted).

Ray Robinson: I'm to pretty to fight Charley Burley.

And a short conversation between Walter Winchell and Sugar:

Walter: You should fight Burley.

Ray: Walter, I thought we were friends?

Burley himself was always confident. But that's neither here nor there. I will accept the testimony of these men who saw Burley and Robinson fight regularly. It would have been a close one. I would probably favour Robinson peak v peak, but only barely.

As you say, we would know if they had actualy fought. And if it had been up to Burley they would have fought. When I say ducked, I mean ducked: Robinson ducked Burley.


As to Burley's loses to Charles - indeed Charles was younger. He was also a big MW, weighing in at 162, Burley weighed in at 154 or 155. That's lot of weight to give a way to a fighter who would mature into a contender for best of all time, p4p. Burley tended to lose to world class box-punchers who were bigger.