What if the all time great were training now

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Devon Dog, Jun 12, 2018.

  1. Devon Dog

    Devon Dog Member Full Member

    331
    179
    Sportsbook:
    1,750
    Dec 29, 2017
    Ali with a top trainer based at Laughbough university with scientist ,doctors and strength and condition coaches
     
  2. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,746
    1,015
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Oct 28, 2017
    What differences would this actually make for his training in practice?
     
    robert ungurean likes this.
  3. Combatesdeboxeo_

    Combatesdeboxeo_ Boxing Addict booted Full Member

    3,013
    990
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Nov 19, 2016
    Marciano today would be 6'6 and 245 he had the frame of tua after all
     
  4. KernowWarrior

    KernowWarrior Cornwalls Finest Full Member

    822
    303
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jul 12, 2012
    I suppose Ali did just about ok at Deer Lake, Pennsylvania, despite 'only' having Angelo Dundee as his trainer.;)
     
  5. Devon Dog

    Devon Dog Member Full Member

    331
    179
    Sportsbook:
    1,750
    Dec 29, 2017
    Dundee was one of the best trainers in the history of the sport but how would he match against Robert McCracken with the power of the scientist technology and nutrition . Now it is not just a trainer on his own It is more than that
     
  6. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Boxing Junkie Full Member

    48,634
    5,885
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Nov 24, 2005
    It makes no difference. When any great fighter was in TIP-TOP SHAPE they were in tip-top shape. You can't get in better shape than that.
     
  7. KernowWarrior

    KernowWarrior Cornwalls Finest Full Member

    822
    303
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jul 12, 2012
    I was first off giving a tongue in cheek response.

    I of course know science, nutrition etc has improved, but using AJ as an example he had all the expertise of McCracken and English Institute for Sport in Sheffield, yet it only really in the Parker fight when he did not gas, so hi tech not answer to all issues, Ali smooth muscled and old skool training who did not lack stamina vs a chiselled AJ with all the modern science who until recently gassed in later rounds.

    If only we had a time machine to bring Clay/Ali and train him in the modern era with all its science, and i truly believe if he was in this era, AJ, Wilder and Fury would each be part of a modern day bum of the month campaign for Ali.
     
  8. steve21

    steve21 Member Full Member

    217
    179
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jan 19, 2015
    I'm probably going to catch some crap for this, but I really don't believe very much of modern training science makes a noticeable difference in boxing as a sport - and I say this fully versed in the nuances of modern training. I agree with Unforgiven - in shape is in shape. I have yet to see any new-school fighter showing a leap or bound in improvement over any old-school fighter; I mean a ridiculous string of knockouts, or still throwing dozens of power shots in the 12th round any better than someone from an earlier generation. There are some stars, to be sure, but if there's any difference it still boils down to the fighter's individual skill level. Conditioning will always play a part, to be sure - but what form that conditioning takes, I think, isn't hugely important. If a guy wants to lift weights and do sprints, more power to him - but I'm still not convinced that it translates into anything better than what fighters have done for generations (I make an exception for injury prevention stuff, like rotator cuff work, that may add some longevity to the athlete).

    Time to bob 'n weave, here come the brickbats ...

    spt
     
  9. Devon Dog

    Devon Dog Member Full Member

    331
    179
    Sportsbook:
    1,750
    Dec 29, 2017
    You dont deserve any crap Steve but I would say the athletic /track and field times have proved it works .

    Nutrition and recovery is a completely new thing Would have George Forman gassed in the rumble in the Jungle if he trained as a modern athlete
     
  10. Devon Dog

    Devon Dog Member Full Member

    331
    179
    Sportsbook:
    1,750
    Dec 29, 2017
    You would have them running on the sand on Newquay beach and eating pastys !!:):):)

    I would say the work McCracken did with the Olympic team showed a better comparison
     
  11. richdanahuff

    richdanahuff Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,434
    1,122
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Oct 12, 2013
    I tend to believe that whatever traits they had that made them great would manifest itself to the same degree today.
     
  12. steve21

    steve21 Member Full Member

    217
    179
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jan 19, 2015
    For a lot of sports, definitely - T&F is a prime example. I just think, in comparison to other athletic pursuits, boxing is it's own beast. Not that it's impossible to find a better way, but after the objective stuff that can be quantified and measured and changed - VO2 max, body fat percentages, recruitment of fast/slow twitch muscle fibers - so much hinges on the intangibles: heart, talent and desire, and that unique one-on-one battle that makes boxing an epic contest. I never believed Michael Spinks beat Holmes (albeit debatable, he won the decision) because of Mackie Shilstone's training regimen. He won because he outfought him.
     
  13. John Galt

    John Galt Active Member Full Member

    781
    11
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Sep 3, 2011
    In those days there was no drug testing in boxing. Today, athletes have to be more careful about what they take and when they take it so that they can pass the testing.

    Ali gained weight from 178 in the Olympics in the summer of 1960 to 210 in early 1964 with no additional body fat. Today when a boxer puts on weight without getting fatter people are suspicious, in those days they were not. Ali did have a doctor (Pacheco) in his training camp.
     
  14. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,746
    1,015
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Oct 28, 2017
    There's a few problems though, for one there have been a lot of changes to things like track surfaces that have caused a lot artificial improvements, even with that there are some records that have gone unbroken for decades. Plus the olympic sports have had a vast increase in professionalism, not nearly as much in boxing. When Jesse Owens set his time, not only would his time have still been elite if only he was on a modern track, but he was also going to university and working part time to pay for it. Or look at the modern Kenyan runners, they basically live in training camps, as soon as they have anything else going on they can no longer compete, and possibly the best Kenyan running coach is a missionary with zero sports science backround, or even any coaching training

    And considering the number of modern boxers that gass in 12 round fights, I'd say he would've
     
  15. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,746
    1,015
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Oct 28, 2017
    I think there maybe would be marginal improvement if they truely trained scientifically, instead much more of it is broscience or just for show.

    I mean is there really something you get from swinging ropes in a climate controlled gym that you wouldn't get from going climbing outside or swimming in a lake? I think the latter would give much more benefit.

    Or maybe they decide that doing roadwork is bad for your knees, which actually isn't even really backed by the science, you just have to manage it properly. And they'll maybe decide something like, since boxing is done in bursts (ignoring there's almost always some level of activity underneath), you should just do intervals, usually saying something about energy systems while not understanding how they actually work, and of course they can't get nearly enough volume from these to build their aerobic system enough, and improvements to anaerobic respiration are more limited, and the better you are aerobically the less you have to do anaerobically, so they end up with crap stamina. SCIENCE!!!
     
    steve21 and greynotsoold like this.

Share This Page