What if there was no Charles or Walcott?

Being sparked by Mauriello takes him out of the equation.
His credentials at world level are non existant,his win against Lesnevich was over a fighter who had won just 2 of his last 5 fights.The Oma fight was a tank job and one of the Savold fights is pretty dubious ,wtf else has he to bracket him with Baksi who punched the **** out of him?
Woodcock doesn't belong in the company of
Bivins
Maxim
Murray
Sheppard
Ray
Baksi
He was a hyped domestic level fighter.

 

I don't understand the Moore would not have been viable until 1953 position. I think Moore is probably the most likely to come out on top in a round robin. Maxim might have a shot if he can avoid Moore. I agree that Baksi would be a factor. Savold lost consistently to the top echelon guys. Ray might be the best of these contenders but he was really of an earlier time. With Walcott not there, Ray most likely would have fought Louis in 1947 or 1948. Off what happened when they did fight (in an exhibition) Ray loses. He was probably too old and far gone to win the title post Louis. I think that is also true of Bivins. Hard to see the glass-jawed Oma winning all the way to the title. Rex Layne has barely been mentioned, but he defeated Walcott in 1950 and I think might have been able to be champion for a short reign in '50 & '51, at least he impresses me as a better bet than Savold, Woodcock, or Oma.

 

This is all true but who was to know that until the dust settled? This is about the 1948 kind of period isn't it?

Im only saying Woodcock would be thrown into the mix because he had a high rating, was a Stadium fighter, beat Lesnevich (Ring Magazine fighter of the year 1947), Savold and Oma in back to back fights. He still gets beat by Baksi. But until he meets Baksi Woodcocks record would stand as good as the other guys. Rightly or wrongly his stature was high.

The loss to Mauriello was in 1945 and had granted Mauriello a shot at Joe Louis. Look at all the other guys around in 1948 who had a rating.
Here's the first yearly rankings without Charles and Walcott after Louis retired=

Lee Oma
Turkey Thompson
Bruce Woodcock *
Lee Savold
Jimmy Bivins*
Pat Valentino
Omelio Agramonte
Roland Lastarza

So in actual fact, what ever you think of him, Woodcock was legitimately in the company you think he wasn't at that time. Because he was rated at that time. Only one of the six guys you mentioned who you say "Woodcock did not deserve to be in the company with" were rated at the time in question.

It's all Very well being wise much after the event, but you need to stick with the time line old chum.

 

What do these men have in common--

Althus Allen, Willie Muldune, Tiger Warrington, Erv Sarlin, Orlando Trotter, Booker Beckworth, Bob Sikes, Johnny Denson, Jack Marshall, Panther Williams, Big Boy Brown, Buddy Walker, Tami Mauriello, Pat Comiskey, Bob Satterfield, Ezzard Charles

They all KO'd Lee Oma. That Woodcock could KO Oma certainly does not stretch credibility. What is the proof of a dive?

 

Rex probably was best placed in 1949 to take over.

 

I'm not being wise after the event ,I just don't think much of Woodcock. Where he was ranked doesn't mean I rank him there, he wouldn't have made my top ten at any point.

 

I had a conversation with Reg Gutteridge about the Woodcock fight he told me Oma went into the tank.Reg's Uncle Jack seconded Oma in that fight,Oma was "floored in the 4th" and stayed there Jack came into the ring to take out his mouthpiece. he told Reg that Oma opened his eyes winked at him and closed them again. Peter Wilson of the Daily Mirror headlined the result with" Oma Coma Aroma".The week previous to the fight ,Oma and his manager Wille Ketchum spent their evenings in the Soho night clubs with two working girls. Gutteridge called the fight an absolute scandal.
Oma admitted taking a dive in an interview with Budd Shulberg.Oma said he had $10,000 on Woodcock to win .Oma's purse was with held by the BBBOC.
Peter Wilson a few years later said he ran into Oma in NY and the boxer told him losing to Woodcock was harder than some of his winning fights.
In1998 Reg Gutteridge stated that Bill Daly, Savold's manager had set up the controversial dsq 1st fight with Woodcock to ensure a lucrative return. You believe what you want.

 

I've also heard Reg tell that story. The fight certainly was unsatisfactory but so are a lot of legit fights. What does it mean? There is a fine line between a non effort, an off night and the old flip flop. How can you tell? Who do you believe? Oma was a strange guy. He had conections but it did not make him necessarily a bad fighter or the guy who beat him a bad fighter. Oma has still scored good results too. Where do you want to go with this? Shall we cast doubt on all his wins too? Were his wins ever legit? Was he a sham fighter? No. He looks good on film. We can't prove anything. And to top it, Woodcock has as solid win over Lesnevich when he was reigning Lightheavy champ back when LIght heavyweights used to beat legitimate HW contenders like Mauriello and Betina.

 

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I think that the politics might well have aligned for a Louis Woodcock title fight, if certain guys are taken out of the equation.

It would have been an easy fight to sell.

 

Too much money for it not to happen. Look at the crowd for this fight.

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Admitting you took a dive will generally convince me! As I said you believe what you want to Gutteridge and Wilson were there they said it was a fix!

 

Lets keep on the path here.

The issue is not whether Woodcock was any good, but whether he might have been steered into certain fights!

 

I've got two guys questioning my statement that the Oma a fight was a fix so I provided details .Do you think I make this up as I go along? Woodcock was almost blind in one eye after the Baksi fight maybe that would have been a factor?

 

Nobody is disputing the result of the Oma fight was unsatisfactory or that you provided details. We are saying that this won't stop Woodcock making it into a vacant title fight.

Without Charles or Walcott, Baksi was potentially good enough to be champion and so too was Rex Layne and maybe Bob Baker and Archie Moore.