It is unthought of today, for anyone to enter a heavyweight fight (or nay other fight) weighing less than the cruiserweight limit. The big guys fight other big guys and if little guys want to come up, they must put on the weight and usually only do so at the end of the career. There are never any big guy vs little guy fights, so we can only assume that the bigger fighters are the better fighters. I am wondering how history would have changed in the early days, if this was always the case. For example, John L Sullivan was a bona fide heavyweight champ. But he would never have lost his title to Corbett, because Corbett was merely a cruiserweight. In todays environment (i will leave out alphabet scenarios) it is fairly clear that he would have reigned until he met the 200lb Peter Jackson in 1892. Jackson probably would have held the title until losing to Jim Jeffries another heavyweight. Jeffries, who is nowadays criticised for fighting middleweights, i presume would have been more dominant than he is today. I see the reputations of Ruhlin, Goddard, Everett being higher. Also, he may have been forced to take on a bulked up corbett. I think JOhnson was still too light, but Denver Ed Martin might have been a good opponent. I wonder how highly Duncan Dokiwari might be rated today. The Johnson years would ahve been interesting. No Sam Langford but McVey and some of the big white hopes might have been ranked a bit higher. I suspect that Fulton would have his supporters and may even get a title somewhere And Willard would be a very interesting proposition if he only fought guys his own size. Without the Dempsey loss, his stock would probably go through the roof although it would be dependent on him getting by Harry Wills, who as it is beat his share of 200+ contenders. Either way, the interesting thing is that with no little guys fighting bigger guys until late in their careers, we would only assume that the likes of Fitzsimmons, Greb and Walker would not be a match for the bigger heavyweights. I think it would be a reasonable assumption, but as history shows it would ahve been wrong.
I think at some point, size and weight does become a determining factor regardless of the skill level. Why did Roy Jones feel he had to put on 20 pounds to face the limited Ruiz? He would have been faster at 175, but he needed that weight to be able to push back a little. That doesnt mean an elite far lighter fighter cant beat an ordinary much bigger man, but I think as size goes up in closes that gap to some extent as well as the level of skill of the heavier fighter. Dont know if that addresses your question?
They have always been the case. Johnson ate his way up to 210lbs after been 185lbs. Dempsey ate his way from middleweight to 190lbs, Patterson ate his way from middleweight to 185lbs, Ellis ate his weigh from middleweight to heavyweight The thing is back in the day, the likes of Fitz could be champion because there werent any good big men. There have been a massive increase in the higher quality of big men Today nutrition is better at helping fighters bulk up and there arent such a high number of people living in poverty without being able to eat their way up to true heavyweights
I am not so sure. I use Toney as the example. Now i know that he lost his main heavyweight fights, but back when he was fit, in his prime and a middleweight or light heavyweight, if he was fighting every week, there is no way in the world that he would not beat his share of heavyweights. It is almost certain that at one stage, he would become ranked in the top 10 and maybe even that middleweight would earn a world title shot. This was in the 90s which was the golden superheavy era. If the smaller Toney has a few wins over some average heavys and is ranked say 5th at one stage, what happens when Montell Griffin beats Toney. All of a sudden we have two guys who are in the top 10. Soon they are joined by Dariusz Michaeljewski. The lines start to get blurred. Pretty soon, when Andrew Golota beats Brian Nix and Terrence Lewis it doesnt earn him a world title shot, but instead sees him giant unskilled nobody who cant do better than a draw with the light punching Chris Byrd. But the point of this thread is that the opposite is true as well. There always have been big superheavys. If the game was restricted to 200lb plus fighters then the bigger guys would be seen as better fighters than the smaller guys who only compete at the smaller weights. If a giant like Willard had won the world title from Jack JOhnson, never fought cruiserweight Dempsey or Tunney but instead fought the likes of Fulton and other giants, all of a sudden his skills and reputation today would be seen as much better. Conversely, Dempsey, who still would have ripped through everyone, but without the 200+ guys would be seen as a great light heavyweight, although his losses to Tunney and the fact that he had never faced a heavyweight punch or carried his power to heavy would mean that anyone today who suggests he might beat Willard would be insane. When you add in the extra weight divisions and governing bodies it makes the whole situation worse. Under todays circumstances, there really are so many unanswered questions, that it isnt funny. Some people think that Carlos Monzon could not beat a heavyweight boxer. He might not have beaten Muhammed Ali, but he could have beaten his share of heavyweights. And if he happened to fight Ali and give him one hell of a fight (like Jones for example) does it really effect Ali's legacy, like some bring down that of Jeffries?
You are supposed to know that you can not really just "eat your way up" to a certain weight. Only James Toney , Sam Peter , Chris Arreola and their likes ate their way up , and even they needed PED help and training. you have to add lean mass which is very difficult if not impossible after growth stage ends. And Patterson was 165 as soon as an amateur. hardly a MW. he started as a lightheavyweight. I doubt he could make 160 for a substantial period , he still grew in that time , even if he could have made 160 then , it was not smart for him even if the lightheavy title was the top of his ambitions.
