What if Tunney didn't retire so soon?

I dont think Tunney would have been rated higher or lower regardless if it was ten or 15 each bout. Tunney relly did a number on Dempsey. close his eye, cut him over the right eye, and smash his face in. And had the fight been 15 rounds in BOTH fights, Tunney would have stop him both times. Dempsey didnt have the legs to go 15 rounds. Dempsey should be gratful it was ten and not 15 rounds.

And even if Tunney did stop Dempsey the first time, Dempsey's ko over Sharkey, would have goting Dempsey other shot.

 

He beats them all in my book. But his chances are greatest if he fights them all in that order. Fighting Godfrey first, Tunney still has his legs (going on the premise that it is soon after the Heeney fight, which is not given enough credit at being as good of a defense as it was, Heeney was ranked third, behind Dempsey (who Tunney had beat, and who Dempsey had beat).
1929 vs. Schmeling is going to be a tough fight. Max still had to make a name for himself in the US at that point, something he really did after his fight with Uz. I am going to say that a 1929 Schmeling is going to be his toughest opponent, I give Tunney the edge based on ring knowledge and still credible skills.
1930 I always thought Sharkey vs. Tunney would be a dull fight. I like the idea of them fighting on paper so much, but when I think about the matchup, even though they hated each other, it becomes a dull affair. A lot of boxing. Tunney has enough ring science to beat him, and I think as much of a professional that Tunney was, he would absoultely give his best vs. Sharkey and want to beat him badly. Sharkey would want the same too.
1931 vs. Stribling, Gene would be getting older for a boxer who relied, in part on legs and quick momentum. Stribling is the perfect opponent for him. Tough, but not near his league in terms of ring knowledge.

Throw in a heavyweight rematch with Loughran somewhere down the line,
maybe a stay busy/interesting fight with someone like Tuffy Griffiths or Uzcudun or a young Max Baer who he would outbox easily, and he would get my vote as a top five (three?) heavy of all time esp when added to real life wins of Greb, Dempsey (x2), Risko, Gibbons, and Heeney. And I think if he wanted it, he could have had it.

Time, and being consistant are the two keys there. I think he would be in shape each and everytime, so that helps with the consistantcy. How much of a step he would lose by the early thirties we'll never know. The order you listed is the best order for him to fight in, though.

 

Could beat all of them is the easy part.

Beating them all back to back is a diferent proposition altogether.

 

A more likley sequence of events to my mind, (asuming his luck holds out) is-

Tom Heeney (done)

Johny Risko

Young Stribling

Jack sharkey

Max Schmeling

Earnie Schaff

Primo Carnera

Max Baer

Steve Hamas

Max Schmeling (again)

Joe Louis

I suspect his luck would run out against either Sharkey or Schmeling.

 

Look at it this way. Sharkey was neck and neck with Heeney in a draw. Tunney beat the hell out of Heeney and stopped him late. I don't see anything that Sharkey does better than Tunney.

Someone aptly noted that Schmeling and Sharkey were close in two fights. I think Schmeling had more snap on his punches than Sharkey, and would have a puncher's chance with Tunney, but that said, Tunney's fast hands and feet ultimately would have been too much for Max.

Tunney was too fine a boxer for Carnera, Baer, and Braddock as well. Again, like Schmeling, Baer would have the puncher's chance, especially because he was physically stronger and had a better chin than Schmeling, although with less speed and skill. Carnera had height and reach, but Tunney was too fast, too busy, too much footwork and conditioning for him.

I just wish Gene had remained champ a little longer and proven me correct.

 

I would take Tunney over any of them,a motivated Sharkey might be his hardest bout,but both at their best ,Tunney by dec.

 

more or less what I feel. I think Tunney absoultely takes M. Baer to the cleaners, reading up on Baer vs. Loughran, Baer had no idea what to do with a constant jab being applied.
Tunney would outpoint Carnera as well fairly easily.

Schmeling is dark horse here. Possible that Schmeling and Tunney could have a series where one goes two out of three. That seems more likely the older that Tunney would get here.

 

I would have liked to have seen this fight because, personality wise, they were so different, and I they more or less couldn't stand the other one. It would have been a grudge match. Gene Tunney UD 15.

 

Maybe, if their first fight was scheduled for, say, 15 rounds,and I'm in agreement with you here, I don't think there was any doubt that Tunney would have stopped Dempsey, maybe THAT would have finished Dempsey, and there wouldn't have been a fight with Sharkey. You see, until Dempsey-Tunney I, no heavyweight champion had ever lost the title by any way other than by knockout. There was maybe some false prestige in being the first champion to lose the crown by a decision. It may have convinced Dempsey that it was time to quit if he had been tko'd or ko'd. At any rate, I feel that if Tunney didn't retire, and had consistantly kept himself sharp and in shape, as disciplined as he was, he would have beaten every one of the title holders up to the time of Louis. I'm also sure that if that did happen, and Tunney felt he was slipping along the way, he would have had the sense to do what in real life, he actually did in '28, and gracefully retire.

 

We cant guess work if Dempsey would retire, if he was ko or not. I think he might give it other try against Tunney, and if it didnt work out, retire as he did in real life. I think Tunney stops Dempsey in the rematch, in rounds 8, 9 and ten, Tunney was getting to Dempsey pretty good with the jab, and Dempsey was just taking it.

 

Yes a champ did lose his title on points.

Burns won the title from Hart on a 20 points victory.

 

I stand corrected on that one, but Marvin Hart never registered, even back then in terms of significance in terms of evaluating the great heavyweight champions, and Dempsey's, in particular place among them. I still say that, had the first Demsey-Tunney bout had been scheduled for say, 15 rounds, that Tunney would have stopped Dempsey, and thus, would have won more conclusively and impressively as well, and would have probably convinced Jack to retire from boxing.