What if Tunney hadn't retired at 31

First of all that is not true .. Carnera challenged Sharkey for the first time in 1931 at the age of 25 .. by that time he had also fought Godfrey, Uzcuden, Maloney, Levinsky and had over fifty "fights" .. he easily could have been matched up w a then 32 year old Tunney and had his head handed to him ..

 

Schmeling might well have knocked Tunney out in 1929 or 1930. Sharkey might have outboxed him.

I think Tunney's being a little bit overrated here. I used to rate him that highly myself. But there's not much on his record to show he'd defeat some young 'live' heavyweights, nevermind speculate that he'd have great longevity.

 

If Tunney actualy held the title at the time, then I don't see him fighting Carnera in 1931.

More likley opponents for him in 1931 would be Schmeling, Sharkey and Stribling.

If I had to take a stab at it, then I suspect that Tunney might have seen Stribling as the astute choice.

 

You might not see it but it more than easily could have played out , especially since there would not have been a two year vacancy period for the title since Gene would not have retired and likely have fought between 28 - 30 .. Again, Carnera had multiple fights against top contenders, was 25 plus years of age, was a draw in a freak like capacity and had over fifty fights .. to me there is little doubt that any form of reasonable Tunney defeats Carnera easily ... a 36 year old plus , who knows other than any fight concerning Carnera is impacted heavily by the ref and now much holding he allows ( see Loughran ) .

 

Agreed! Tunney would have jabbed his head off.

 

And I do agree that past a certain point Gene, not anywhere near a Dempsey or Baer type puncher could be spoiled by Primo's size and physical advantages ..

 

I agree.

Looking at Tunney's age, I have checked several sources, and all list him being born on May 25, 1897.

So he would have been 32 in 1929, 34 in 1931, and 36 in 1933.

The problem here is that Tunney at heavyweight is such a shot in the dark. Most of his opponents were smallish--Carpentier, Weinert, Risko, Madden, and Heeney were all under six feet tall. Gibbons is sometimes listed as 6 feet, but he is clearly shorter by an inch or two than the six foot Tunney on film. The best of his early opponents, Greb, was the middleweight champion.

Even against light-heavyweights, he was matched with the past-it crowd--Levinsky, Carpentier, Gibbons--for the most part. One would like to have seen him in with hot young lightheavies with a punch like Berlenbach or Delaney in 1924 & 1925, but that didn't happen either.

No one was as carefully managed as Tunney, I think.

He looked great against a 31 year old Dempsey who had laid off three years. He looked petty good against a 32 year old Dempsey, but got caught, and if Dempsey had the stamina to press the last three rounds, the decision might have been interesting.

It leaves most of what he would have done against a cross-section of good-sized heavies (and I'm talking about the standards of his own era) a total guess.

Schmeling for example would bring a quick right to cross over the Tunney jab. No one Tunney fought had anything like that. And Tunney's stamina has been mentioned. But Schmeling was a fitness freak with excellent stamina also. It is possible Schmeling would outlast Tunney. Even in Tunney's prime, I think Schmeling would have been a handful for him. I see it as pretty much an even fight. With Tunney at 33 or 34? I pick Schmeling.

As for Carnera, I agree with Janitor. I think a 36 year old Tunney would have been in deep water as were Sharkey and Loughran. Tunney against Carnera in 1931? I wouldn't assume the 34 year old Tunney could match the 29 year old Sharkey's performance. Sharkey had beaten a long string of big heavyweights. Tunney never beat any.

 

Did Carnera ?

 

Yes.

Carnera was very consistent against ranked contenders who were never going to make it to the top.

Levinsky, Hamas, Neusell, were good heavyweights who maintained top 10 rankings, and he was knocking them over like dominoes.

Obviously when he fought a Sharkey or Baer, he suddenly found himself overmatched.

He did beat Sharkey though, you can take that to the bank!

 

I also agree. It's hard to believe that there are people here who think that Canera would beat Tunney, even an aging Tunney. As far as Tunney staying around long enough for a debacle against Louis, no way. Gene was much too smart to stay in the game too long. Boxing was a means to an end, big money, not an end in itself for Gene. He didn't have to prove anything, and he had many more interests to pursue. He was a renaissance man.

 

And that is ultimately why our story ends.

Tunney knew that boxing was a sport for men of desperate fortunes, so he gave it up once he was on top.

That is why we never saw the Tunney era!

 

So then if he was knocking them over like dominos along the way to 71 KO's in 88 fights I'd be curious to know where you rate this big time puncher all time in heavyweight history ? I also have very serious doubts over the Sharkey rematch ..

 

Who knows when father time will pick a mans pocket?


But dedication to conditioning and smarts would be to Tunney's advantage,

 

"Did Carnera?"

Beat big heavyweights? Many, actually.

One is Campolo who KO'd Heeney in 9 and was in turn KO'd by Carnera in two in a fight which is on film and in which Carnera certainly appears to land a bunch of effective punches.

As for fighters rated in The Ring yearly ratings that Carnera defeated, this is the list discounting the murky Stribling and Godfrey fights--

Jim Maloney, Paulino Uzcudun, Jack Sharkey, Knute Hanson, Vittorio Campolo, Ernie Schaaf, King Levinsky, Tommy Loughran, Don McCorkindale, Walter Neusel, Art Lasky, Ray Impellitiere, Ford Smith

Not one of the best lists. No where near the worst either. And, of course, some were way past it and at least one (Lasky) green.

And there is always that cloud about how many of these fights were on the level. The ones which are on film do not on the surface appear to be fixes.

 

I see this thread every few years. Its a great what if. I think Tunney had a few more title defenses in him, and would have picked him over Sharkey, Schmeling, Baer, or Braddock...the game of musical chairs where champions changed often in the early to mid 1930's.

Tunney would was 30 years old in 1927. I do think he could have been in near peak form up to 1931.