What is Schmeling had got the decision in the second Sharkey fight?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by janitor, Mar 28, 2020.


  1. GoldenHulk

    GoldenHulk Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think a lot of Schmeling not getting the decision was Hitler's rise to power in Germany. Could you imagine the propaganda it would have created. Of course Louis destroyed Schmeling in their rematch.
     
  2. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Max Schmeling was already the reigning heavyweight champion when he lost the decision to Sharkey. He'd been the champion since 1930 (for two years). The Sharkey rematch was Schmeling's second title defense.

    And Adolf Hitler didn't officially become the chancellor in Germany until 1933. The Sharkey-Schmeling rematch was in 1932.

    Schmeling was a very popular fighter in New York in the early 1930s. Hell, he was still the fan favorite in New York the night he knocked out Joe Louis.

    And boxing decisions aren't based on who is running for office in a boxer's country. The U.S. didn't even declare war on Germany until 1941, and that was after it was attacked by Japan. In 1932, the political situation in Germany wasn't exactly top of mind for most U.S. sports fans.

    Sharkey-Schmeling II was just a bad decision. It didn't have anything to do with a politician who wasn't even in power yet.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
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  3. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I have to disagree. Sharkey would not outshine them all in terms of volume of world class wins.

    Sharkey's total record is 38-14-3. Including Schmeling, Sharkey defeated 17 men who appear in the Ring's annual rankings for a total of 19 wins. He beat Maloney 3 times. So w/o Schmeling, he would have beaten 16 world ranked men.

    His contemporary Johnny Risko beat at least 23 ranked fighters in a total of 31 fights. Here is Risko's list:

    Romero Rojas, Jack Delaney, Paulino Uzcudun, Phil Scott, Jack Sharkey, George Godfrey, Otto Von Porat, Jim Maloney (3), Ernie Schaaf, Victorio Campolo, Tom Heeney, King Levinsky (3), Max Baer, Tony Galento, Mickey Walker, Bob Olin, Paul Berlenbach, Eddie Huffman (3), Sully Montgomery, Joe Sekya, Lou Scozza, Tuffy Griffiths, Tommy Loughran (2)

    If you keep it to champions, Sharkey beat Schmeling & Carnera, plus Tommy Loughran, Jack Delaney, and Mike McTigue. Risko beat Sharkey and Baer, plus Loughran, Walker, Delaney, Berlenbach, and Olin.

    I think Loughran and Ernie Schaff (who died at 24) also might actually be more impressive than Sharkey on this score. I plan on checking on them when I have the time.

    Here is Sharkey's rated opponents list:

    Floyd Johnson, Jack Renault, Jim Maloney (3), Bud Gorman, Johnny Risko, Eddie Huffman, Sully Montgomery, George Godfrey, Harry Wills, Mike McTigue, Jack Delaney, Young Stribling, Tommy Loughran, Phil Scott, Primo Carnera, Max Schmeling, Unknown Winston,

    For me, this list is impressive, but it is Harry Wills being on it which gives it the extra lift. But Wills' crushing loss to Uzcudun the next year makes one wonder is Sharkey was just a guy who got Wills at the right time when age caught up with him.
     
  4. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    The main thing that you are convincing me of, is that Risko might be the most under rated heavyweight of all time.

    Although Risko's stats are very impressive, Sharkey did have a better peak winning streak, and even if he never beats Schmeling, he is still the other man in the ring for both fights.
     
  5. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Risko is tough to judge, because he fought a lot, won a lot but also lost a lot.
     
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  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Absolutely.

    He is the text book case that is hard to decipher.

    At his best, he was obviously a truly exceptional fighter!
     
  7. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He had a brutal schedule which is unseen in heavyweight division. Do we have anything on film with him in action?
     
  8. KasimirKid

    KasimirKid Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I wish. He's right up there with Greb, Rosenbloom, Jenkins, Britton, Flowers, Joe Walcott, Bud Taylor, and Jack Blackburn on my list of fighters I wish I could have seen.
     
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  9. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    well, I just don't agree with Sharkey being that deep in top fighters. He is certainly respectably strong, with 17 fighters and 19 fights,but quite a few are up there with him and ahead of him. 2 of these fighters were only light-heavyweights.

    Some and their records against fighters who appeared in the Ring Magazine's heavyweight rankings & number of fights:

    Jimmy Bivins--19 & 28 fights
    Tommy Loughran--19 & 26 fights
    Archie Moore--17 & 26 fights
    Zora Folley--18 & 21 fights
    Eddie Machen--18 & 22 fights

    I will print any of these lists out if asked, and will eventually print some out, especially Loughran, who I think has the most impressive resume of heavyweights of anyone who was not champion.

    One I find interesting is Ernie Schaaf. Here is his list:

    Yale Okum (2)
    Bud Gorman
    Johnny Risko
    Jack Renault
    Tommy Loughran (2)
    Max Baer
    Jim Braddock
    Jim Maloney (2)
    Victorio Campolo
    Tuffy Griffiths
    Young Stribling
    Unknown Winston (2)
    Tony Galento
    Paulino Uzcudun
    Stanley Poreda

    That comes out of 15 fighters and 19 fights. Not that different from Sharkey in quantity or quality and for a man who died at 24. One of these men was a light-heavyweight.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
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